- My Forums
- Tiger Rant
- LSU Recruiting
- SEC Rant
- Saints Talk
- Pelicans Talk
- More Sports Board
- Fantasy Sports
- Golf Board
- Soccer Board
- O-T Lounge
- Tech Board
- Home/Garden Board
- Outdoor Board
- Health/Fitness Board
- Movie/TV Board
- Book Board
- Music Board
- Political Talk
- Money Talk
- Fark Board
- Gaming Board
- Travel Board
- Food/Drink Board
- Ticket Exchange
- TD Help Board
Customize My Forums- View All Forums
- Show Left Links
- Topic Sort Options
- Trending Topics
- Recent Topics
- Active Topics
Started By
Message
re: Iowa vs LSU breakdown
Posted on 12/13/13 at 11:24 pm to BrewHawk
Posted on 12/13/13 at 11:24 pm to BrewHawk
quote:
Of course, if we stuff you guys it will just be that you weren't motivated and didn't come to play. What a load of crap.
Maybe. Maybe not. Seems you are still discounting (or even dismissing) the motivation factor. I do not. It still remains, IMO, a huge factor in any game. Let us look outside of Iowa and LSU games:
Think the Iron Bowl with Alabama vs. Auburn where Auburn scored to tie the game at 21 with almost no time left in the game. You probably saw that as Auburn was just as talented as Alabama (or other) and deserved to go on the game-tying drive at the very end. Not trying to speak for you, but that's my opinion of your perspective. That doesn't mean that's a bad take, BrewHawk, it's just different than my take. BrewHawk - great posting. Fellow Hawkeyes - great posts.
My take was that Auburn had a "never-say-die" motivation factor that they brought into play with players and coaches. No way should Auburn have even been (again, on paper) in this game at the end with Alabama. Auburn only won 3 games the previous year. Auburn was supposed to be "lucky" - not even remotely as good as the Alabama crew. Alabama was a double digit favorite. Yet, there they were all tied up at the end of the game. Fine, Saban made a tactical error by not attempting a FG earlier to possibly put Alabama up by 2 scores. However, Auburn would have still been in the game at the very end (losing by 3 points maybe). That's right, I will not even address the 109 yd. return for an Auburn win.
I suppose there are other views/explanations for this above example game as to why Auburn had this game tied at the end (other than motivation). Execution, minimizing mistakes, smart decision making abilities, great play calls, superior talent performing as posited, timing and other. Yet, to me, most or all of those required a ying-yang "I can kick your arse all game long" factor. To me, that is not only confidence but also motivation. See my Signature...
Week after week during the season I have seen many, many games where the "favored" team got their collective arse kicked up and down the field. Right away in the 1st Q... Usually resulted in a paper loss for me in my College Pick'em contest (haha). Did national perspective miss the mark? Probably not. Something else is in play, IMO.
I just don't believe that every game features 2 teams that bring the same level of play (after play) competitive spirit (which I choose to call motivation) to the party.
I hope Iowa brings it. I hope LSU brings it. It won't take me long to see if LSU "shows up".
I could tell almost immediately when LSU faced A&M. Our D line was immediately in the A&M backfield play after play. I so totally enjoyed the entire game. LSU also did that for 2 1/2 quarters vs. Alabama. LBs prospered during those times - of course. So did entire LSU def. backfield.
Iowa guys, I think many LSU posters (like me) are struggling to come up with more exact descriptions of "what about LSU" because of our missing 2013 starting QB Mett. We hope Jennings will step up to the plate big time. He certainly did on LSU's last drive vs. Arkansas. We just don't know. Hope so.
The profile of the LSU defense this year has been well covered by previous posters. My take is our front 7 history is such that we will give up big rushing yardage. Our corners are young but very talented, so they should blanket (if man) your receivers. Your TEs may present a problem. Still, LSU def. made A&M's giant receiver Mike Evans look bad all game. Why? Must have been the rain in Tiger Stadium.
I really like Delahoussaye's FG kicking. LSU punting is hit or miss. If he does well he totally beats national average. Our kickoff game is sound with Hairston - he usually sails it out of the end zone for a touchback. Our return teams may beat you (Iowa). They are very disciplined with OBJ returning.
Go Hawkeyes !
2
Posted on 12/14/13 at 12:17 am to TaserTiger
How many QB sacks has your QB had this year?
Is he able to move around the pocket? Mobile?
How many yards rushing does he have this year?
I guess I am trying to figure out the Iowa OL/RB et.al. blocking for your QB dynamic vs. the LSU front 4/front 7 etc. with LSU blitz play calls as they unfold.
LSU's def. line does not have a long history of "stuffing" the run or getting into the backfield (much less QB sacks). Has Iowa performed well in the OL/RB/FB blocking area for their QB in their important games?
Should be an important deciding aspect of this game, IMO.
Is he able to move around the pocket? Mobile?
How many yards rushing does he have this year?
I guess I am trying to figure out the Iowa OL/RB et.al. blocking for your QB dynamic vs. the LSU front 4/front 7 etc. with LSU blitz play calls as they unfold.
LSU's def. line does not have a long history of "stuffing" the run or getting into the backfield (much less QB sacks). Has Iowa performed well in the OL/RB/FB blocking area for their QB in their important games?
Should be an important deciding aspect of this game, IMO.
Posted on 12/14/13 at 8:04 am to TaserTiger
I'll answer these in a very general way with my take below in (....)
On paper, to me at at least it comes down to our TE's on your LB's. A defensive scheme to put pressure on your QB, and probably cover 3 on your WR's.
quote:
How many QB sacks has your QB had this year?
Is he able to move around the pocket? Mobile? (We have not given up many sacks this year. He is mobile, meaning he can escape trouble, but not mobile as defined as a running qb)
How many yards rushing does he have this year? (This isn't an issue. He has limited running ability. He has rushed for td's. He can run, but no one would define him as a running qb)
I guess I am trying to figure out the Iowa OL/RB et.al. blocking for your QB dynamic vs. the LSU front 4/front 7 etc. with LSU blitz play calls as they unfold. (It has been our OL. That's really all one needs to say. It is always our OL and our D)
LSU's def. line does not have a long history of "stuffing" the run or getting into the backfield (much less QB sacks). Has Iowa performed well in the OL/RB/FB blocking area for their QB in their important games? (OL is our hope)
Should be an important deciding aspect of this game, IMO.
On paper, to me at at least it comes down to our TE's on your LB's. A defensive scheme to put pressure on your QB, and probably cover 3 on your WR's.
Posted on 12/14/13 at 8:54 am to Iowa Golfer
It would not surprise me to see Rudock pull it and run several times thia game. During the season there were many times when lots of us questioned why he wasn't pulling it on the read option. The consensus is generally that he was instructed not to. Generally Ferentz preaches not to take risks and is probably one of the big reasons Rudock beat out the other 2 qbs.
I really could see them game planning for him to pull it in some key situations that he hasn't in the past, hopefully gashing yards by catching the D unprepared.
I really could see them game planning for him to pull it in some key situations that he hasn't in the past, hopefully gashing yards by catching the D unprepared.
Posted on 12/14/13 at 8:59 am to TaserTiger
quote:In 12 games Ruddock has 62 carries, 266 yards gained, 43 lost for a net of 223 . 5 rushing TDs.
How many QB sacks has your QB had this year?
Iowa has given up 12 sacks this year.
Is he able to move around the pocket? Mobile?
Yes, Ruddock is fairly mobile and able to move within the pocket when under pressure. Has a good head about him and will throw it away when nothing is available.
How many yards rushing does he have this year?
Posted on 12/14/13 at 9:00 am to cas4t
quote:
Message
Posted by *cas4t*_________________________________________quote:
_________________________________________If the SEC is as good as espn promotes and so many proclaims, how can 2 mid-level b12 teams come in and play for an SEC title and knock off mighty Bama (aTm last yr)_________________________________________
2 thing:
1- Bama ended up winning the NC very convincingly
Pretty sure notre lame had no biz playing in NC game.
Posted on 12/14/13 at 9:02 am to BrewHawk
quote:
Posted by *BrewHawk*_________________________________________They had 43 yards rushing vs. Bama.
The Tigers also only had 77 vs. Georgia and 114 vs. Ole MIss.
I think Iowa will take their chances with Jennings throwing the ball. He may have a very good game, but if were the Iowa DC, that would be my approach.
Of the teams you mentioned, only Bama has a better rushing defense statistically.
This is very interesting to me. I feel much better about our run D...still worried about a running qb Though
Posted on 12/14/13 at 1:10 pm to TaserTiger
quote:
TaserTiger
The point I'm trying to make is that LSU could very well come out motivated as can be and Iowa could play well enough to nullify the Tiger's effort. There's a lot of people here who don't think that there's even a glimmer of that possiblity happening.
It's insulting, it's myopic and it very well might be dead wrong. I don't believe there's as big a gap between the two teams as many think.
Then again, Iowa could come out unmotivated and get blown out.
Posted on 12/14/13 at 9:36 pm to The Big Hawk
quote:
This is my big worry--LSU getting 300+ passing yards with about 100 on the ground. It's more realistic a possibility than some will admit.
You might be a little backwards with your stats there. I fully expect to come close to 300 yds on the ground but getting 300 yds thru the air would be a great bonus for our off season moral.
Keep in mind that Les loves the I-form.
Posted on 12/14/13 at 9:54 pm to Dick Macho
quote:
You might be a little backwards with your stats there. I fully expect to come close to 300 yds on the ground but getting 300 yds thru the air would be a great bonus for our off season moral.
Keep in mind that Les loves the I-form.
Keep in mind that if Iowa commits to shut down your run game, they will...
...it just might be at the expense of the passing defense.
Again, if I were Iowa, I'd take my chances against a true frosh QB with minimal playing time. Jennings may very well be good enough to play well and make us pay.
With Mettenberger and your very good WRs, the threat of an air attack is what made your running game as effective as it is.
Iowa DBs will play a deep zone defense and likely keep eight in the box. The DL will hold their lanes and not get out of shape to allow free space along the LOS. The LBs will make a lot of tackles.
If Jennings is patient enough to just keep taking the underneath stuff all the way down the field, he will likely move with relative ease, if he's accurate. If he's not patient and tries to force passes, then we've already won the game.
Honestly, if I were Cameron, I would come out in a bunch of 3 and 4 wide sets to spread out the Iowa defense all over the field and try to create space where my athletes can make plays. The problem this might present is not having enough protection for Jennings, but again, if Jennings is willing to take the short, underneath stuff he will probably move the ball very effectively outside the red zone. Then it will be up to LSU to come up with something nasty to get it to the endzone once inside the 20.
This post was edited on 12/14/13 at 9:58 pm
Posted on 12/14/13 at 9:56 pm to Iowa4430
quote:
If the SEC is as good as espn promotes and so many proclaims, how can 2 mid-level b12 teams come in and play for an SEC title and knock off mighty Bama (aTm last yr)
A+M??
That's like a rent a win for us bro.
Posted on 12/14/13 at 10:09 pm to BrewHawk
The threat of the air attack is what made the run game? No. That's just wrong. Lsu's passing game struggled last year and Hill dominated. Lsu is talented in both facets.
The thing is, if you load up on the run..Cam will absolutely go pass all day. You'd be leaving your overmatched corners in one on one coverage...that'd make Jennings job that much easier.
The thing is, if you load up on the run..Cam will absolutely go pass all day. You'd be leaving your overmatched corners in one on one coverage...that'd make Jennings job that much easier.
Posted on 12/14/13 at 10:16 pm to BrewHawk
quote:
With Mettenberger and your very good WRs, the threat of an air attack is what made your running game as effective as it is.
LSU has had a ground and pound mentality for a long time now and they've only been successful through the air this year consistently. A whole bunch of LSU's long rushes actually did happen against stacked boxes in short yardage situations. The Tigers are used to rushing against stacked boxes.
Our opponents mostly tried to stick with tradition and stack the box to try to make us beat them through the air. This is why we arguably have the best receiving duo in the nation.
But I digress.. forcing LSU to beat them with the arm of their first time starting TF is the obvious favorite method of defense. I am just trying to say that everyone has done this to LSU over the last decade so it will absolutely be nothing new to anyone in Purp and Gold.
If I were to scheme against my Tigers, I might go with more of a 3-4 and blitz from different angles. TF or not, Iowa can't afford to give Jennings time to throw and they also need to get into the backfield in order to stifle the rushing game. Saban usually does this but his defense is built for it.
Posted on 12/14/13 at 10:24 pm to Dick Macho
Guess we're screwed since we run a 4-3 and don't blitz a whole lot. Shucks.
Posted on 12/14/13 at 11:49 pm to BrewHawk
quote:
The point I'm trying to make is that LSU could very well come out motivated as can be and Iowa could play well enough to nullify the Tiger's effort.
BrewHawk - Excellent point. Most excellent point. I enjoy your comments.
Your point, IMO, would still assume 2 equal teams. Vegas has established LSU as the favorite (not to get into the whys and wherefores of LSU being favored at a neutral site).
All things equal, with LSU favored, if your point played out Iowa would not nullify any Tiger effort (IMO).
You are asking me to be completely impartial and pick Iowa in a contest where the favored team is motivated as can be.
I probably won't do that.
However, flop the table and your point totally makes sense. I offer the Auburn victory over Bama example I used above. Underdog Auburn took it to Bama. Iowa most definitely is in this game big time with LSU and can walk away with a victory (like '04) by outplaying LSU. Whether that outplaying effort is due to talent, etc. or motivation I will leave that up to future analysts to determine (subjectively, of course).
The more I study this game the more I am convinced this will be a great game. A barnburner.
Go Hawkeyes ! Posted on 12/15/13 at 2:17 am to BrewHawk
quote:
Guess we're screwed since we run a 4-3 and don't blitz a whole lot. Shucks.
OK now, you don't have to be like that. I am simply telling you that nearly everyone has attacked the LSU offense exactly like you've mentioned. As for blitzes, if your front four can create enough havoc then you don't need to. I just don't know of many defenses that can do that without sending extra guys every other play against LSU.
Also, my thoughts on the 3-4 were based mainly on the DC having the opportunity to be very creative with blitzes.
If you don't think that Iowa would have the personnel for the 3-4 then maybe they might be able to pull of something that Chavis used to do when DBU was in effect. He would use a 3-1-7 on third downs and passing distances. The coolest thing about the formation was that he would bring blitzes from so many different places that it was just as fun to watch that defense as it was to watch a high powered spread offense. He might just bring the typical four rushers but one would come from an unconventional angle.
I am not one of those guys who thinks lowly of Iowa's chances in the game at all. The biggest concern that I have is our inconsistent defense. One week we hold Johnny Football to 10 pts and the next we couldn't stop an Arky team that went winless in the SEC. (To their defense, they did stop them in the end)
Posted on 12/15/13 at 7:26 am to TaserTiger
quote:
BrewHawk - Excellent point. Most excellent point. I enjoy your comments.
Your point, IMO, would still assume 2 equal teams. Vegas has established LSU as the favorite (not to get into the whys and wherefores of LSU being favored at a neutral site).
All things equal, with LSU favored, if your point played out Iowa would not nullify any Tiger effort (IMO).
You are asking me to be completely impartial and pick Iowa in a contest where the favored team is motivated as can be.
I probably won't do that.
However, flop the table and your point totally makes sense. I offer the Auburn victory over Bama example I used above. Underdog Auburn took it to Bama. Iowa most definitely is in this game big time with LSU and can walk away with a victory (like '04) by outplaying LSU. Whether that outplaying effort is due to talent, etc. or motivation I will leave that up to future analysts to determine (subjectively, of course).
The more I study this game the more I am convinced this will be a great game. A barnburner.
All Vegas is trying to do is get equal money on both sides from the betting public. Of course public perception is going to favor LSU...look at the ESPN poll where it's 80/20.
We're just Iowa from the Big Ten, against a great program from the SEC, a conference that ESPN crams down everybody's throat every chance they get because it makes them more money than the Big Ten does.
Again, this game will be won and lost in the trenches and this is where Iowa makes it's hay. No question that LSU's lines are solid as well, but if/when Iowa wins this game you can point to the big uglies as the reason. Which leads in to my next reply to Macho...
This post was edited on 12/15/13 at 8:25 am
Posted on 12/15/13 at 8:23 am to Dick Macho
quote:
OK now, you don't have to be like that. I am simply telling you that nearly everyone has attacked the LSU offense exactly like you've mentioned. As for blitzes, if your front four can create enough havoc then you don't need to. I just don't know of many defenses that can do that without sending extra guys every other play against LSU.
Also, my thoughts on the 3-4 were based mainly on the DC having the opportunity to be very creative with blitzes.
If you don't think that Iowa would have the personnel for the 3-4 then maybe they might be able to pull of something that Chavis used to do when DBU was in effect. He would use a 3-1-7 on third downs and passing distances. The coolest thing about the formation was that he would bring blitzes from so many different places that it was just as fun to watch that defense as it was to watch a high powered spread offense. He might just bring the typical four rushers but one would come from an unconventional angle.
I am not one of those guys who thinks lowly of Iowa's chances in the game at all. The biggest concern that I have is our inconsistent defense. One week we hold Johnny Football to 10 pts and the next we couldn't stop an Arky team that went winless in the SEC. (To their defense, they did stop them in the end)
Sorry, have heard too much disrespect from several other posters on here. Typically pretty good at shrugging off the haters, but it was pretty rampant when I first showed up here this year.
The numbers I've seen are that Iowa has about a 15% blitz rate, which is pretty low.
The Hawks really do try to control the LOS with four guys and four guys only most of the time. They occupy blockers to keep the LBs running free to make plays. The LBs have been very, very good this year and fill so quickly that it might even appear to be a blitz, but they are just reading the play from their original postion and in many cases, already know what play is being run due to exhaustive film room work.
Just to gush a little more about the LBs, because the three seniors really do deserve it...
Chris Kirksey is our LEO who will line up strong side every play. When LSU goes 3 wide he will be on your slot receiver or the TE. This position isn't very glamorous as he's typically just providing leverage and taking particular players out of particular plays. He's doing the hidden dirty work that allows everyone else to get the glory. He has made plays (see strip, recovery and return for TD vs. Northern Illinois) and is #3 in tackles behind the other two LBs.
Anthony Hitchens is the WILL and has made the most improvement of the three from last year. Supposedly the coaches were having issues with him playing downhill and making the better plays that they knew he could, so they challenged him in practice to not worry about assignments and just go get the ball carrier every play. From there they were able to channel his reading ability and he has become an absolute tackling machine. Leads the team in tackles, is second in tackles for loss and third in sacks. He has played his best football these last two games. Had 8 tackles, 3 of them for loss, 2 hurries and a forced fumble and recovery to seal the win vs. Michigan. Had 7 tackles, 1 hurry, 1 pass breakup and 1 interception with a nice 18 yard return against the Huskers. He's been our biggest hitter on D.
James Morris (Lott Award finalist) mans the middle and along with FS Miller is the QB of the defense. Just an all-american kid who has a 3.8 GPA in pre-law. The four year starter was second on the team in tackles and lead the team in sacks and interceptions. I'm gonna save a lot of typing and just say he's everything you want in a football player and should have a very good career in the NFL.
All three of these guys were on the Butkus watch list and are the heart and soul of our defense. I will say that if the DL isn't doing its job, they can and will get caught up in the wash from the OL which makes it a lot tougher to do their job. Fortunately, the DL has been playing much better this year and is a huge part of the reason we've gone from 4-8 to 8-4. This team just continues to improve week by week.
Iowa is a low-risk, low-reward defense, but they all do their jobs and do them pretty darn well. I will add that it's not unusual for the Hawks to come out in just a simple base defense, which the opponent will sometimes just drive the length of the field on right out of the gate, only to find the rest of the sledding a lot tougher as adjustments are made.
Whichever team wins the LOS will win this game.
This post was edited on 12/15/13 at 8:24 am
Posted on 12/15/13 at 8:27 am to BrewHawk
If Iowa stacks the box I would be very surprised.
Posted on 12/15/13 at 8:34 am to Iowa Golfer
quote:
If Iowa stacks the box I would be very surprised.
Depending on what LSU comes out in I wouldn't be surprised to see Lowdermilk in the box quite often (if they're in a two wide formation). Based on what everyone's saying here, Miles believes in ground and pound and we may want to commit the extra guy to see what Jennings is capable of with his arm.
We will likely see Iowa in a base alignment for the first offensive series and then adjust from there.
If they go 3-4 wide, then we'll see our traditional 6-7 in the box alignment.
Page 7 of 8
Popular
Back to top
Follow TigerDroppings for LSU Football News