re: interesting comments on brandon harris

Bravo! Well said, my man.

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Yet he was inaccurate on short easy throws. So many of you just believed so much that he was great that you can't take an objective look at the guy. He wasn't very good, and was terrible at some throws.

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To be fair, Les Miles missed on every single QB recruit he had for 10 years not named Ryan P, who got booted.

10 years.

So either they all sucked and our coaches are bad at evaluating talent.

Or they couldn't coach them for the college game.

Either way, coach's fault after a decade.

Harris was ranked right behind Watson coming out of hs and was the closest qb to him on rating.

I really think he could have been a good college qb in the right system. Doesn't mean it translates to pro but it doesn't have to. Having a great college career alone is awesome.

I remember last fall seeing a practice video where receivers ran the gauntlet straight across the field, straight line, constant speed, and about 6 QBs threw to them from 10 yards away. No defender, no pass rush.

I remember seeing Harris throw about 20 balls during this drill, and 7 or 8 were VERY inaccurate. Again, 10 yards away, simple pass, and he was terrible.

Several rantards on this board were in full excuse-mode and said Harris was SUPPOSED to throw inaccurately, which is complete nonsense, since all the other QBs were throwing accurately.

That solidified my opinion that Harris just can't throw short passes accurately.

But I do think he was put in the wrong offense here and maybe he'll do better under Fedora, in a scheme that fits his skill set.

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CAMERON: He was fired from Indiana where he won less than 1/3 of his games (18-37) with Antwaan Randle El who finished his career with a 49% completion rate. He was also fired by Miami (1-15), twice by the Ravens after making no progress with Flacco, and twice from LSU with 1 Jindal pardon thrown in. 

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Cam at Indiana

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As head coach at Indiana from 1997-2001, Cameron helped create quarterback Antwaan Randle El into one of the most dynamic players in college football history. Randle El became the first player in NCAA Division I history to pass for 40 career touchdowns and rush for 40 career TDs. He finished fifth on the NCAA all-time total yardage list with 11,364 yards (7,469 passing, 3,895 rushing) and was sixth in the Heisman Trophy balloting as a senior in 2001.

Cam NFL.

NFL OC/qb coach for 14 years.

was named NFL assistant of the year by sports illustrated.

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after making no progress with Flacco

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flacco's passing tds and qb rating got better for 3 straight years with cam

cam was fired but flacco got better the first 3 years.

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So the Flinstones took the equivalent of Deshaun Watson and stuck him under center trying to learn Cam's "admittedly overly complex archaic system". 

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that wasn't the air coryell that Cam likes to run.

RickDaddy/JaxTiger Statmaster: "That wasn't the Air Coryell Cam likes to run...NFL asst of the year" He was so bad at what he liked he was FIRED 5 TIMES.

New Hall of Famer Jason Taylor says Cam Cameron 'was an idiot'"I have no idea how he got the job. I've never been around a more incompetent head coach than Cam Cameron. I'm talking youth football, college. It was unbelievable.

Cameron, a control freak, hot-tempered, fought with Flacco & Harbaugh, has been fired 4 times (actually 5 - 2x at Ravens), and he never coached a QB except Indiana Randle El who was 45-50% completion, 42 TDs/37 INTs and had a 18-37 record with Cam as HC - result fired.

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It’s what he didn’t do that got Cameron fired. He didn’t develop an offense with an identity or a good enough quarterback. Except for Flacco’s rookie year when the Ravens became a run-oriented offense, the Ravens failed every year afterwards in trying to become a passing team. Cameron didn’t get along well with Flacco. As the Ravens took the field in overtime Sunday, Flacco looked confused. And when he did his famed 360 move while trying to escape pressure, he looked as lost as he did duing his rookie season.

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Miami HC 1-15: Fired. The Staff in Miami said Cameron was by far the biggest a-hole, far worse than Saban!!

Jackson, Zorn, and Caldwell were Flacco's QB coaches, not Cam. Caldwell mentored Peyton Manning. They had good personal relationships with Flacco while Flacco and Cam never got along. Flacco was always complaining about Cam being too conservative. Flacco wanted to run more HUNH, spread, and 3+ WRs to keep the defense off balanced and prevent substitutions and Cameron did not take his input, or the QB coaches input on game planning and play calling.

"Cam was a control freak." During the second consecutive loss, 4th of the year, to the Redskins and Rookie QB RGIII, Cam got into a heated discussion with Harbaugh and was fired the next day. Bisciotti, the owner, and Harbaugh decided if they were ever going to be an 'offensive team' Cam had to go.

We are talking 5 yrs! Cam and Flacco both started in 2008. The tension between Cameron with Zorn, and Flacco got so high in 2010 that Cam demanded Zorn be fired, forcing Harbaugh to make a tough decision to keep Cameron rather than Zorn. The owner wanted to fire Cameron and keep Zorn.

5 yrs with Flacco and Cam never got past I formation, 2WR/2TEs/FB, Flacco was sacked too often because Cam's slow vertical WR routes into double coverage made QB hold ball too long, poor play calling/game planning, ran when he should have passed, passed when he should have run, no misdirection, rubs, hitches, screens, crossing patterns, and he had the lowest 3WR utilization in the NFL - and that is the base formation in the Pass First NFL.

Cam was fired by the Ravens for running Miles' same "Stone Age" offense - conservative, archaic, predictable, sitting on 7-10 point leads, relying on the defense to win, and refusing to open up the offense with tempo/HUNH and spread passing tactics mixed with Run-Pass-Option plays which puts any defense on it’s heels, prevents subs, opens up the whole field, especially the middle, and defines the the most successful FBS and NFL teams. "The Ravens passing game wasn’t sophisticated. There weren’t a lot of rubs, crossing patterns, motion or a variety of sets. The Ravens seldom attacked the middle of the field and Cameron didn’t have a feel for games. He ran when he should have passed and passed when he should have run." Cam, always on the hot seat, was fired after 2 losses with only 3 games to go in 2012. Harbaugh and QB coach Caldwell (Manning's former HC) opened the offense: "We're cutting loose on offense. We're going to spread them out, run no-huddle, attack on every play, put the ball in Joe's hands. He's going to win the games for us." Shotgun, spread, tempo/HUNH, 3 WR sets and Flacco calling the plays instantly transformed the Ravens into an explosive 'offensive identity team' something conservative Cam could not do in 5 yrs and has never done. Flacco set the all time record in the 3 postseason games throwing 11 TDs, O INTs, averaging nearly 300 yds passing and 460 yds of offense/gm. Result: Super Bowl, MVP, and a 110 million contract.

In the 7-0 run up to ALA, ARK, and OM, Harris faced long 3rd downs averaging 8+ yds, converting 44%. That is a tall order for Joe Montana to quote McFarland.

It got worse in the ALA and ARK games as he faced 17 of 25 3rd downs of 8+ yds, converting 3 of the 17 for 18% while he converted 75% or 6 of 8 of the 3rd downs of 5 yds or less. Behind a run-oriented run-blocking OL that failed all year at the much more difficult task of pass protection, Harris was sacked/hit 8 times vs ALA, injuring his shoulder, knee, and groin, and 5 times vs ARK, and constantly threw under pressure to well-covered receivers.

Short touch passes over the middle have never been Cameron's playbook forte. Plus in 3rd and long without tempo/HUNH, motion, crossing patterns, rubs and a variety of sets in spread 3+WR sets, there are not going to be a lot of one-on-one mismatches, blown coverages, and the middle is not going to be open. When Harris threw on early downs he stayed ahead of the chains. Third and long are longer developing plays and ALA, ARK, and OM brought the house. On his 2nd qtr 40 yd TD to Dural, Cyrus Jones was unblocked and really nailed Harris and he was not the same after. There were 8 blown OL blocks in that game and Harris was nailed 8 times, often being crushed, or taking a hit while throwing, arms wrapped up and being driven into the ground on his throwing shoulder. He was under constant pressure, scrambling on long developing vertical routes that are Cam's stock and trade. Not ideal situations for touch passes to well-covered receivers.

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5 yrs with Flacco and Cam never got past I formation, 2WR/2TEs/FB, Flacco was sacked too often because Cam's slow vertical WR routes into double coverage made QB hold ball too long, poor play calling/game planning, ran when he should have passed, passed when he should have run, no misdirection, rubs, hitches, screens, crossing patterns, and he had the lowest 3WR utilization in the NFL - and that is the base formation in the Pass First NFL.

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What does all this wall of bs have to do with 86.3RAT under Cameron and 82,7RAT post Cameron?

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When Harris threw on early downs he stayed ahead of the chains.

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I don't care enough to look it so not going to get in a big debate about this, but I recall from 2015 sit stats Harris 3rd RAT was approx 30pts higher than 1st RAT, and 20pts higher than 2nd RAT.
Also the difference in attempts on 1st and 3rd were minimal, and qty of 1st downs were almost identical also(actually 1 or 2 more on 3rd).

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acco won a super bowl with defense after Cam was FIRED. Grbac is the only one on your list whose entire career (collegiate) overlapped with Cam's. He was a big guy and big recruit that played during a pretty good run at UM and got a lot of help from surrounding teammates. Both Green and Frerotte arguably experienced the height of their NFL careers well after Cam. 

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do you know how rare it is for a nfl qb to have the same OC for 4 years or their career?

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Both Green and Frerotte arguably experienced the height of their NFL careers well after Cam. 

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this would be true of any OC that isn't around when a young qb enters his prime.

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Randle El is a terrible example, but I expected this from you. Tim Couch set a lot of records under Hal Mumme, really torched the SEC. Would you consider Mumme a great coach? 

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except Cam didn't just have 1 example of being the OC for a very productive offense.

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Cam won this with one current and two future hall of famers on offense. All of which had/are having extraordinary careers without him. 

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where are these high powered nfl offenses that doesn't have talent?

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Under this reasoning, I suppose all he needs 6-10 is years to develop a collegiate quarterback. 

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The two biggest names on your list would most likely be no worse off had they never met Cam.

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this is true of any OC that coaches hall of famers. are you using the same logic for those coaches?

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I really don't understand your love affair with the previous regime.

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there is none. I'm simply stating a fact. Cam Cameron's offensive resume and qb coaching speaks for itself. it's for sure better than Fedora's resume.

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They won a lot of games, but QB development was a glaring issue with all quarterbacks who started and ended their career at LSU

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never said it wasn't.

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Your relentless defense of the coaches, and subsequent insinuation of player inadequacies disgusts me. 

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ask me if I care what disgusts you

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The same coaches that promised Harris the moon put him in a position very few could succeed 

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there is no offense that allows the qb to be wildly inaccurate on short and intermediate throws.
not one.

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Cam Cameron on ESPN pregame prior to 2016 LSU vs UW in regard to LSU's offense. 

"We're on fire

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cool.