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If you can't win your conference, can you win the nation?
Posted on 11/18/11 at 8:57 am
Posted on 11/18/11 at 8:57 am
I've been arguing with my buddies about this rematches and all the rest. I don't want to hear about hypothetical should be situations with playoffs or any of that. I'm boiling it down to pure logic. So I pose to you this question:
If a team does not compete in their conference championship, can they honestly go on to the national championship and claim victory over the country?
If a team loses their conference championship, can they honestly compete in the national championship and consider themselves the best team in the country?
You are not the best team in your DIVISION BAMA, which is part of a conference that you will not be competing for the title in. Do you honestly think that puts you in a position to deserve to call yourselves national champions?
This also applies to us, sadly. If we lose the conference championship I think that OK or OKSTATE will play Oregon. 2 teams who won their conference would be able to compete to see who won the nation. Essentially this is a playoff, win your division and you compete for the conference, win the conference and get a chance at the national title. otherwise, shut up and hope for a BCS bowl
If a team does not compete in their conference championship, can they honestly go on to the national championship and claim victory over the country?
If a team loses their conference championship, can they honestly compete in the national championship and consider themselves the best team in the country?
You are not the best team in your DIVISION BAMA, which is part of a conference that you will not be competing for the title in. Do you honestly think that puts you in a position to deserve to call yourselves national champions?
This also applies to us, sadly. If we lose the conference championship I think that OK or OKSTATE will play Oregon. 2 teams who won their conference would be able to compete to see who won the nation. Essentially this is a playoff, win your division and you compete for the conference, win the conference and get a chance at the national title. otherwise, shut up and hope for a BCS bowl
24
Posted on 11/18/11 at 8:59 am to TexasTiger1185
quote:
If a team does not compete in their conference championship, can they honestly go on to the national championship and claim victory over the country?
bama will have no problem doing this.
Posted on 11/18/11 at 9:00 am to TexasTiger1185
That would only be an ok rule if every conference has a championship game. But not all conference champions are decided the same way, so you can't penalize the conferences that have a CG.
So let's say two SEC West teams are tied with 1-loss. The 1-loss SEC West team that beat the other goes to the SECCG. Let's say that team loses to a multi-loss team from the East. The remaining 1-loss SEC West team did NOT win its conference.... BUT in the former Pac-10, you can have a three-way tie at the top, in which all teams are considered "conference champion." So the SEC in this case would be penalized by its divisions if there was a rule that you had to win your conference championship.
So let's say two SEC West teams are tied with 1-loss. The 1-loss SEC West team that beat the other goes to the SECCG. Let's say that team loses to a multi-loss team from the East. The remaining 1-loss SEC West team did NOT win its conference.... BUT in the former Pac-10, you can have a three-way tie at the top, in which all teams are considered "conference champion." So the SEC in this case would be penalized by its divisions if there was a rule that you had to win your conference championship.
Posted on 11/18/11 at 9:00 am to TexasTiger1185
quote:
This also applies to us, sadly. If we lose the conference championship I think that OK or OKSTATE will play Oregon. 2 teams who won their conference would be able to compete to see who won the nation. Essentially this is a playoff, win your division and you compete for the conference, win the conference and get a chance at the national title. otherwise, shut up and hope for a BCS bowl
:kige:
Posted on 11/18/11 at 9:01 am to TexasTiger1185
Has a team made the playoffs in the pros as a wild card and went on to win the championship?
Posted on 11/18/11 at 9:01 am to TexasTiger1185
Bama's delusional fanbase will be just fine with calling themselves champions at anything.
Posted on 11/18/11 at 9:05 am to TexasTiger1185
quote:
This also applies to us, sadly. If we lose the conference championship I think that OK or OKSTATE will play Oregon.
But OK or OK-St will not have to win their conference in the same way as the SEC champion. They don't have to go through that extra game. So why should a potential SEC representative be penalized?
Posted on 11/18/11 at 9:09 am to LSUJuice
@novabill: In the pros the wild card teams play 1 more game than the top 2 seeds. In LSU's case we would have to play 1 more game than the lower seeded team. It's backwards.
This post was edited on 11/18/11 at 9:12 am
Posted on 11/18/11 at 9:18 am to TexasTiger1185
quote:you may have something there, the media mainstream have been all on Oregona nuts since LSU beat them, sayin they have improved and wasn't up to there best ball when they played LSU, but now are on a roll. Pisses you off, but nothing you can do about it. OK State wins out and they have a good chance because they have been playin lights out, but if they destory OK like everyone else they have destroyed and LSU loses. Oregon will jump Bama and LSU to play OK Stae, watch and see.
If we lose the the conference championship I think that OK or OK STATE will play Oregon.
Posted on 11/18/11 at 9:21 am to LsuTool
quote:
If a team does not compete in their conference championship, can they honestly go on to the national championship and claim victory over the country?
quote:
bama will have no problem doing this.
Even if they don't win the game
Posted on 11/18/11 at 9:23 am to novabill
quote:
Has a team made the playoffs in the pros as a wild card and went on to win the championship?
I was about to post this. In 97 Bama won the SEC and LSU won the Nat Champ beating Bama in the Champ game.(Baseball)
This post was edited on 11/18/11 at 9:24 am
Posted on 11/18/11 at 9:31 am to TexasTiger1185
quote:
If you can't win your conference, can you win the nation?
The question should be "If you can't win your division, can you win the nation"?
Posted on 11/18/11 at 9:31 am to TexasTiger1185
I've been having this same debate with many of my buddies about what would happen IF.... IF we lose to Arkansas and the BCS gets flipped upside down. Should Bama get the chance to be in the BCSNC game if SEC West loses in the SECCG... absolutely not. Like someone previous said... This is your playoffs. The conference games are the playoffs. You win your division, next step is Conference NC (at least is the conferences that have their **** together), then you win the conference championship AND ARE SEEDED HIGH ENOUGH, then NC bids can begin to be discussed. LSU wins out, Bama wins out, Oregon and OKST somehow lose... Bama still doesn't deserve a shot at the NC because they lost AT HOME, DURING THE REGULAR SEASON, IN A CONFERENCE GAME. There's your playoff game, your playoff loss, and you are now eliminated from contention (barring that OU, UO, OKST, LSU all win out). OKST wins out, LSU somehow loses, then OKST/UO would be the correct BCSNC game in my opinion. OU wins over OKST in the Bedlam game, LSU loses, OU leaps over Bama as conference champions, and we get an OU/UO game. Either way, Bama rolled down the hole with the shanked field goals.
Posted on 11/18/11 at 9:33 am to Double Down
quote:
The question should be "If you can't win your division, can you win the nation"?
If you lose your division in the same way a team in another conference can win its conference, then the answer is yes.
Posted on 11/18/11 at 9:35 am to novabill
quote:
Has a team made the playoffs in the pros as a wild card and went on to win the championship?
The Packers last year
Posted on 11/18/11 at 9:42 am to novabill
pretty sure that was Green Bay last year.
Posted on 11/18/11 at 9:48 am to TexasTiger1185
quote:
If a team does not compete in their conference championship, can they honestly go on to the national championship and claim victory over the country?
If a team loses their conference championship, can they honestly compete in the national championship and consider themselves the best team in the country?
I think so. It is acceptable in every other sport and on every other level. wild card teams when the world series and superbowl. lesser teams have won the ncaa basketball tourney. LSU has played Bama in the College World Series.
Posted on 11/18/11 at 9:48 am to LSUJuice
quote:
But OK or OK-St will not have to win their conference in the same way as the SEC champion. They don't have to go through that extra game. So why should a potential SEC representative be penalized?
You are trying to argue for fairness. which doesn't exist. If things were 'fair' then Boise would have competed for a BCSNC before. I agree that all conferences, no matter how many teams, should have a conference championship game. But to say that the SEC championship game SHOULDNT hold us back from going to the national championship is foolish. If it didn't have any bearing on the season then why play it? If it didn't matter if we won or lost, we would still go to the BCSNCG then I would say we should bench all of our starters (so as to not risk injury) and basically forfeit the game.
Posted on 11/18/11 at 9:50 am to TexasTiger1185
The system is what it is. The FBS champion is determined by the BCS system. The teams ranked #1 and #2 play for the championship. There are no other stipulations. The winner of that game is the national champion.
If I had a vote, I would (like most) put extra weight on being a BCS conference champion. However, that's not the only thing.
In defense of Bama (did I just say that?), if they end up in a 3-way tie due to an LSU loss to Arky, LSU still probably goes. Bama's argument for the NCG gets better though.
If I had a vote, I would (like most) put extra weight on being a BCS conference champion. However, that's not the only thing.
In defense of Bama (did I just say that?), if they end up in a 3-way tie due to an LSU loss to Arky, LSU still probably goes. Bama's argument for the NCG gets better though.
Posted on 11/18/11 at 9:50 am to ashy larry
but you are talking about playoffs. college football does not have a designed playoff system. If there was one, then I would not complain about a team who didn't win their division winning the NC, because they would have had to earn it on a harder road through the playoffs.
LSU would have homefield advantage throughout the playoffs, while BAMA would have to play away games to get through. That evens it out, but currently Bama will play 1 game less than us, not winning the division or the conference, or winning against LSU.
LSU would have homefield advantage throughout the playoffs, while BAMA would have to play away games to get through. That evens it out, but currently Bama will play 1 game less than us, not winning the division or the conference, or winning against LSU.
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