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Evaluating Harris/Etling, the "Les(s)" effect from a broad scope
Posted on 12/2/16 at 1:35 pm
Posted on 12/2/16 at 1:35 pm
Next year, Danny should be be the leading candidate or the starter.
Why does that seem to be a problem? Whatever OC we get, Etling should do very well.
What people need to realize if they haven't already is that both Etling, Harris, and some previous LSU Qbs did not develop and reach their fullest potential under Cam/Les' strategy. Once the firing took place, you could tell the pressure was off; we saw improvements with hick ups. Even the play calling was better; in game strategy/coaching/intensity was all better. I like to call it the "Les(s)" effect was removed.
TBH, I think Harris is the better quarterback/athlete in that position. In fact, I think Harris has the biggest advantage if he stays put to win the starting Qb position because once again, he is not having to function under Miles. The "Les(s) effect was so pungent in Brandon's play that it cost Harris his starting job. With that said, I would really like to see how Harris would perform under a new system, a fresh start. Had he been given the opportunity to perform as the Qb after the firing and even under Coach O/Esminger play calling/strategy, Harris could have been really good and at least better than before.
But for now and until proven otherwise, most of College football and fans say Harris sucks and TBH The big differences between Harris and Etling is:
- Harris seemed to always rely or go for the big play, he didn't manage the game well, and he didn't check down or read the defense very well.
Whereas Etling set up the big play by first marching down the field, taking advantage of what the defense gave and after we had a lead, every once in a while he took the chance for a big play. To his advantage, The check down was so seldomly used under Harris, that when Etling went to the check down, he was successful in doing so with positive gains and it won the LSU fans over; we all saw the check down, and so did Danny. That makes Harris look even worse in the fans perspective. I would constantly hear fans around me say "Brandon can't read or check down like Danny can."
Hope you enjoy the read, Love to hear your thoughts.
Let's get a bowl victory, new OC, great recruiting class, get behind Coach O, and 2017 playoffs here we come, Hold Dat Tiger!!!
Why does that seem to be a problem? Whatever OC we get, Etling should do very well.
What people need to realize if they haven't already is that both Etling, Harris, and some previous LSU Qbs did not develop and reach their fullest potential under Cam/Les' strategy. Once the firing took place, you could tell the pressure was off; we saw improvements with hick ups. Even the play calling was better; in game strategy/coaching/intensity was all better. I like to call it the "Les(s)" effect was removed.
TBH, I think Harris is the better quarterback/athlete in that position. In fact, I think Harris has the biggest advantage if he stays put to win the starting Qb position because once again, he is not having to function under Miles. The "Les(s) effect was so pungent in Brandon's play that it cost Harris his starting job. With that said, I would really like to see how Harris would perform under a new system, a fresh start. Had he been given the opportunity to perform as the Qb after the firing and even under Coach O/Esminger play calling/strategy, Harris could have been really good and at least better than before.
But for now and until proven otherwise, most of College football and fans say Harris sucks and TBH The big differences between Harris and Etling is:
- Harris seemed to always rely or go for the big play, he didn't manage the game well, and he didn't check down or read the defense very well.
Whereas Etling set up the big play by first marching down the field, taking advantage of what the defense gave and after we had a lead, every once in a while he took the chance for a big play. To his advantage, The check down was so seldomly used under Harris, that when Etling went to the check down, he was successful in doing so with positive gains and it won the LSU fans over; we all saw the check down, and so did Danny. That makes Harris look even worse in the fans perspective. I would constantly hear fans around me say "Brandon can't read or check down like Danny can."
Hope you enjoy the read, Love to hear your thoughts.
Let's get a bowl victory, new OC, great recruiting class, get behind Coach O, and 2017 playoffs here we come, Hold Dat Tiger!!!
8
Posted on 12/2/16 at 1:38 pm to DiehardLSUZach
quote:
Harris seemed to always rely or go for the big play, he didn't manage the game well, and he didn't check down or read the defense very well.
Here, you identified the 3 main reasons why this:
quote:
TBH, I think Harris is the better quarterback/athlete in that position.
is not true.
Managing the game well and taking your check-down or "taking what the defense gives you" is critical to playing Quarterback at a high level.
Posted on 12/2/16 at 1:44 pm to Wind
I should have clarified, Harris has much better physical attributes then Danny has, there's no comparison, Harris has greater arm strength and zip on the ball than Etling.
Trust me, I am not for or against Harris, Etling deserves to be the starter.
Trust me, I am not for or against Harris, Etling deserves to be the starter.
Posted on 12/2/16 at 1:51 pm to DiehardLSUZach
quote:
Harris has greater arm strength and zip on the ball than Etling.
What about accuracy?
Posted on 12/2/16 at 1:55 pm to DiehardLSUZach
quote:
Harris seemed to always rely or go for the big play, he didn't manage the game well, and he didn't check down or read the defense very well.
I watched Parkway HS play in a few games this year. Their current QB, Wudtee, is a stud but has the same issues that Brandon has. Their whole game plan is to throw the ball deep and count on receivers to catch up and adjust. They occasionally use the QB's legs to get them out of jams but the rely heavily on throwing the long ball and not so much on accurate strikes, check downs or game managing. Hell, they won most of their high school games by 50 points.
This post was edited on 12/2/16 at 1:57 pm
Posted on 12/2/16 at 2:00 pm to DiehardLSUZach
The difference is Harris has all the tools, but doesn't have the knowledge to use them.
Etling has a few tools and can build a mansion.
Also I think you're fundamentally wrong on what a QB should be. ALL good/great QBs are game managers in there particular offensive schem. Some have to be more athletic than others to run a particular offense (Pro vs Spread). Harris is a great Athlete, but can't manage the game (he can't read defenses, when to check down, and he can't hit a papa johns golf cart). Although les/cam play calling was bad, it doesn't make up for the fact that he constantly missed 7 yard passes or over threw receivers.
Etling the man until further notice.
Etling has a few tools and can build a mansion.
Also I think you're fundamentally wrong on what a QB should be. ALL good/great QBs are game managers in there particular offensive schem. Some have to be more athletic than others to run a particular offense (Pro vs Spread). Harris is a great Athlete, but can't manage the game (he can't read defenses, when to check down, and he can't hit a papa johns golf cart). Although les/cam play calling was bad, it doesn't make up for the fact that he constantly missed 7 yard passes or over threw receivers.
Etling the man until further notice.
Posted on 12/2/16 at 2:01 pm to DiehardLSUZach
quote:
Harris seemed to always rely or go for the big play, he didn't manage the game well, and he didn't check down or read the defense very well.
You forgot to add Harris didn't go through his progressions very well either. And all of those reasons you listed are the difference between a successful QB and a QB that is on the bench! Etling does all those nuances well enough to start, I don't think Harris will be able to correct what he doesn't do well over a 8 month period to take the starting position back. And yes Harris is the better athlete and has a stronger arm than Etling, but that doesn't mean he is a better QB which he is not!
This post was edited on 12/2/16 at 6:21 pm
Posted on 12/2/16 at 2:10 pm to DiehardLSUZach
quote:Harris cannot complete short to intermediate passes. The end.
Evaluating Harris/Etling,
Posted on 12/2/16 at 3:02 pm to DiehardLSUZach
I wish Harris well. There is no reason to believe his skillset will be different for a final season at LSU.
Posted on 12/2/16 at 5:05 pm to DiehardLSUZach
quote:
What people need to realize if they haven't already is that both Etling, Harris, and some previous LSU Qbs did not develop and reach their fullest potential under Cam/Les' strategy.
I doubt that anyone would argue the fact that quarterback development was a major problem the last few years with Miles and Cameron, but I don't think it's fair to put Etling into this discussion.
Etling went damn near two full years without any game time experience between his last game at Purdue and this years Jacksonville State game. He was rusty his first game (anybody would be after two years) but he had a pretty good game against Mississippi State. He had a rough game against Auburn and Miles/Cameron were canned. In SEC play, his Auburn game was his second worst game of the year (as far as completion percentage and QBR) behind the bama game with the Florida being his third worst.
So he only played 2 and 3/4 games with Miles and went 40 completions in 71 attempts for 433 yards with 3 touchdowns and 1 interception. I got these stats from Fox Sports so I hope they're correct.
Anyway, who's to say that Etling wouldn't have progressed the same way he did after Miles was gone?
Posted on 12/2/16 at 5:23 pm to earl keese
Nobody "deserves" to be the starter at this point. There should be competition from now until the season starts next year.
Posted on 12/2/16 at 5:35 pm to LuzianaFootball
quote:
Nobody "deserves" to be the starter at this point.
Not sure why you would say this in response to my post. I never even used the word "deserves" in it.
Posted on 12/2/16 at 8:27 pm to LuzianaFootball
Disagree
Posted on 12/2/16 at 8:37 pm to DiehardLSUZach
That dude hates DE for some reason... Look at his post history.
Whines like a bitch.
Whines like a bitch.
Posted on 12/2/16 at 11:31 pm to DiehardLSUZach
The problem people are not understanding is that Les and Cam did Harris no favors. They weren't adjusting the offense to fit his skillset and trying to force a square peg into a round hole.
The fact is that Etling's success has a lot to do with the fact that the offense Les and company have been running suited his skillset more than Harris', which has made him look better.
Harris has significant advantages in the deep ball accuracy where Etling is straight horrible. Etling seems to be better moving around in the pocket and not getting happy feet.
In reality, I think that Harris' potential and sparks have proven IMO that he could be the better QB. He could elevate this offense against a legit defense. Etling, in his role, is a game manager, and can make good throws, but not take over a game against a good defense (see Bama game). The UF game was good, but that was a lot of 2nd and 3rd teamers that day for them on defense.
In the end, both could be successful, but I don't think LSU will beat a Bama team with Etling. If an OC comes in and adjusts the offense/tweaks it to fit Harris' talent, LSU's offense could flourish.
The fact is that Etling's success has a lot to do with the fact that the offense Les and company have been running suited his skillset more than Harris', which has made him look better.
Harris has significant advantages in the deep ball accuracy where Etling is straight horrible. Etling seems to be better moving around in the pocket and not getting happy feet.
In reality, I think that Harris' potential and sparks have proven IMO that he could be the better QB. He could elevate this offense against a legit defense. Etling, in his role, is a game manager, and can make good throws, but not take over a game against a good defense (see Bama game). The UF game was good, but that was a lot of 2nd and 3rd teamers that day for them on defense.
In the end, both could be successful, but I don't think LSU will beat a Bama team with Etling. If an OC comes in and adjusts the offense/tweaks it to fit Harris' talent, LSU's offense could flourish.
Posted on 12/3/16 at 2:16 am to Geauxgurt
Yes you're right miles/cam didn't help harris but they didn't help Etling either and we didn't change play books since they left Etling just knocked the rust off and continued to improve. Harris does have a few tools but he's not this super talented player. He has a strong arm and can run that's it accuracy and decision making are the two most important skills a qb must have and he has neither. So you can install a spread offense that is tailored to fit everything he does well and he'll still be a poor qb. Doesn't matter if we are running read option and screens a qb has to make some plays from the pocket and he just can't plus even if he did have presence he has no accuracy. There is no system coordinator or offense that can make harris a better qb than Etling. It's not an arm strength competition that's the only thing he's better at.
Posted on 12/3/16 at 3:34 am to Madking
Harris can throw the deep fade great, but has poor accuracy on simple down and distance tosses, throws without touch or finesse intermediate, gets his WRs destroyed across the middle with late throws and/or not seeing the whole field and leaving them to be cracked.
Harris regressed and was very uncomfortable in 2016. Started with bad Manning Camp on forward, where his comments showed a great disconnect from where his view of his skill sets and his actual performance greatly contrasted. And whether poor overall team play or his own, was woeful and lacked savvy vs Wisky,etc..
Where as Etling, despite arm limitations in strength and accuracy, is self-aware, is growing in confidence with game experience, developing some chemistry with his targets, and in figuring out how to maneuver his and the team's strengths and weaknesses towards winning. Isn't as rattled as Harris when vs a foe of equal stature to LSU in talent.
Harris regressed and was very uncomfortable in 2016. Started with bad Manning Camp on forward, where his comments showed a great disconnect from where his view of his skill sets and his actual performance greatly contrasted. And whether poor overall team play or his own, was woeful and lacked savvy vs Wisky,etc..
Where as Etling, despite arm limitations in strength and accuracy, is self-aware, is growing in confidence with game experience, developing some chemistry with his targets, and in figuring out how to maneuver his and the team's strengths and weaknesses towards winning. Isn't as rattled as Harris when vs a foe of equal stature to LSU in talent.
This post was edited on 12/3/16 at 3:46 am
Posted on 12/3/16 at 7:19 am to TheRoarRestoredInBR
Agreed 100%
Posted on 12/3/16 at 9:48 am to earl keese
Harris = Jordan 
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