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allright, you know it alls. why can't we develop qb's?
Posted by stephendomalley on 12/2/15 at 2:40 pm514
let me say this. if you actually watch the games, if we could pitch and catch on the plays that were called, our offense would be pretty damn good.
every team has drops, but our real problem is qb play, as every one knows. we either don't see the open receiver, can't put touch on a pass, throw the pass into the dirt, throw it to high and/or behind the receiver, etc.
and let's admit, you can't have a great qb every year. there are going to be some down years. But how come every year for 4 years in a row is a down year around here, and quite a few years before that as well.
what's the grand theory? Is it just poor coaching, poor recruiting, or is it our philosophy?
probably a little bit of all, but I say, and it's just an opinion, it's philosophy. our head coach doesn't like the passing game. He loves to infinity the running game. I have no problem with that part. However, loving running and passing are not mutually exclusive ideas. if miles would embrace the passing game with some of the passion he has for rushing, and bring our qb's in with the expectation that we need them to be playmakers, have confidence in them, and really work to find their strengths.
anyway, that's my take.
I wanna here what the really smart analysts on this board have to say.
every team has drops, but our real problem is qb play, as every one knows. we either don't see the open receiver, can't put touch on a pass, throw the pass into the dirt, throw it to high and/or behind the receiver, etc.
and let's admit, you can't have a great qb every year. there are going to be some down years. But how come every year for 4 years in a row is a down year around here, and quite a few years before that as well.
what's the grand theory? Is it just poor coaching, poor recruiting, or is it our philosophy?
probably a little bit of all, but I say, and it's just an opinion, it's philosophy. our head coach doesn't like the passing game. He loves to infinity the running game. I have no problem with that part. However, loving running and passing are not mutually exclusive ideas. if miles would embrace the passing game with some of the passion he has for rushing, and bring our qb's in with the expectation that we need them to be playmakers, have confidence in them, and really work to find their strengths.
anyway, that's my take.
I wanna here what the really smart analysts on this board have to say.
This post was edited on 12/2 at 2:42 pm
re: allright, you know it alls. why can't we develop qb's?Posted by KG5989 on 12/2/15 at 2:43 pm to stephendomalley
A bit of everything.
We don't do a great job developing QBs. We run a tough vertical passing attack that takes time for plays to develop and QBs to make tough throws, and we have very few if any "easy throws" for "easy yards". It's tough for a QB to get into a nice rhythm out there in that type of offense, especially considering we run the ball 65% of the time. And we've had a ridiculous amount of drops this year as well.
So like you said, it's a bit of everything.
We don't do a great job developing QBs. We run a tough vertical passing attack that takes time for plays to develop and QBs to make tough throws, and we have very few if any "easy throws" for "easy yards". It's tough for a QB to get into a nice rhythm out there in that type of offense, especially considering we run the ball 65% of the time. And we've had a ridiculous amount of drops this year as well.
So like you said, it's a bit of everything.
This post was edited on 12/2 at 2:47 pm
re: allright, you know it alls. why can't we develop qb's?Posted by HuRRiCaNe MiLeS on 12/2/15 at 2:45 pm to stephendomalley
Because Saban.
Yea. The slow-developing plays coupled with degree of difficulty of the throws makes it hard on everyone including the line which in turn affects their play in the all so important run game.
This post was edited on 12/2 at 8:26 pm
re: allright, you know it alls. why can't we develop qb's?Posted by Wind Rivers Tiger on 12/2/15 at 2:46 pm to stephendomalley
quote:
if we could pitch and catch on the plays that were called, our offense would be pretty damn good.
Disagree with this premise. It would certainly help, but there are much larger issues.
re: allright, you know it alls. why can't we develop qb's?Posted by TheDrunkenTigah on 12/2/15 at 2:48 pm to stephendomalley
Combination of bad evaluation, very convoluted yet predictable scheme that does them no favors, and the fact that there just aren't that many good QBs to go around. When we get an NFL caliber QB, it looks great. If not, it looks like shite. We aren't the only ones struggling with this though, even ole Jimbo is having a down year.
re: allright, you know it alls. why can't we develop qb's?Posted by moneyg on 12/2/15 at 2:51 pm to stephendomalley
It's not the QB development on its own. The scheme is tough on QBs. That's why it requires a very good, very developed QB.
Our scheme is tough on QBs not because of its complexity...it's because of it's simplicity. A more diverse passing attack which uses the entire field (yes, even the short middle) forces defenses to defend differently and gets our athletes in more positions to make plays. That is what is needed. That is what is missing.
This isn't something that is implemented mid year. This only can be implemented over time. It's not the same as play calling. Play calling is the result of the implementation of a diverse passing attack. You don't just start throwing more to solve our issues. If you do, you end up seeing major issues in the passing game.
Once we take that step, sure, you still need good QB play and you still need to develop the QB. But, honestly, I think our coaches today are very capable of doing that.
Our scheme is tough on QBs not because of its complexity...it's because of it's simplicity. A more diverse passing attack which uses the entire field (yes, even the short middle) forces defenses to defend differently and gets our athletes in more positions to make plays. That is what is needed. That is what is missing.
This isn't something that is implemented mid year. This only can be implemented over time. It's not the same as play calling. Play calling is the result of the implementation of a diverse passing attack. You don't just start throwing more to solve our issues. If you do, you end up seeing major issues in the passing game.
Once we take that step, sure, you still need good QB play and you still need to develop the QB. But, honestly, I think our coaches today are very capable of doing that.
re: allright, you know it alls. why can't we develop qb's?Posted by Topwater Trout on 12/2/15 at 2:52 pm to stephendomalley
apparently we have a very complicated route tree for our passing game...seems like they would simplify it...highschools have better passing offenses than we do
re: allright, you know it alls. why can't we develop qb's?Posted by Choctaw on 12/2/15 at 2:52 pm to stephendomalley
because you touch yourself.....so stop it
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re: allright, you know it alls. why can't we develop qb's?Posted by stephendomalley on 12/2/15 at 2:54 pm to Wind Rivers Tiger
quote:
Disagree with this premise. It would certainly help, but there are much larger issues
I know I'm not going to convince you, and I agree we could do a better job of not looking so predictable. but if you watch every game there are critical plays that we don't make. the calls were good, the play was open. if we make these plays, and I still maintain there are generally more than a few each game, it changes everything.
real point is the play-calling isn't as bad as even I sometimes claim it to be. we have our opportunities, but we can't take advantage of them because of poor qb play. and sometimes drops.
re: allright, you know it alls. why can't we develop qb's?Posted by Fight4LSU on 12/2/15 at 2:56 pm to stephendomalley
We don't recruit the right style of QB for the system IMO. Les is determined to have a mobile QB when what we need is a true pocket passer.
re: allright, you know it alls. why can't we develop qb's?Posted by stephendomalley on 12/2/15 at 2:56 pm to Choctaw
quote:
because you touch yourself.....so stop it
Choctaw, I bet you put in more phone calls to the czar than Pee Wee Herman.
re: allright, you know it alls. why can't we develop qb's?Posted by moneyg on 12/2/15 at 2:59 pm to Topwater Trout
quote:
apparently we have a very complicated route tree for our passing game...seems like they would simplify
Can you better explain what you mean here?
re: allright, you know it alls. why can't we develop qb's?Posted by jrodLSUke on 12/2/15 at 2:59 pm to stephendomalley
The biggest factor is underclassmen. Upperclassmen QBs tend to be more productive.
Russell
Flynn
Mett
We've had a couple that struggled.
JJ
Lee
Jennings was a true soph.
Harris was a true soph.
I expect Harris to be improved as a Junior QB with one year under his belt.
Here are some stats for you to consider. Read them over and give them some thought before you read the last sentence of this post.
Soph QB Stats: 156–267, 58.4 comp %, 1,940 yards, 10 TDs, 7 Ints, 126.6 QBR
Those are the 2013 stats of Dak Prescott.
Russell
Flynn
Mett
We've had a couple that struggled.
JJ
Lee
Jennings was a true soph.
Harris was a true soph.
I expect Harris to be improved as a Junior QB with one year under his belt.
Here are some stats for you to consider. Read them over and give them some thought before you read the last sentence of this post.
Soph QB Stats: 156–267, 58.4 comp %, 1,940 yards, 10 TDs, 7 Ints, 126.6 QBR
Those are the 2013 stats of Dak Prescott.
re: allright, you know it alls. why can't we develop qb's?Posted by kingbob on 12/2/15 at 3:02 pm to stephendomalley
Predictable offense, not enough short passes, not enough screens, inability to run the ball against teams built to stop it, lack of designed QB runs despite possessing "dual-threat" QBs
re: allright, you know it alls. why can't we develop qb's?Posted by Tigerfan53 on 12/2/15 at 3:04 pm to stephendomalley
A little bit of scheme and a lot of recruiting. We never have experienced quarterback ready to take over. Most of the time we starting freshman or sophomore
re: allright, you know it alls. why can't we develop qb's?Posted by Topwater Trout on 12/2/15 at 3:06 pm to moneyg
quote:
Can you better explain what you mean here?
I forgot who the announcer was...maybe Blackledge. But a few years ago when we were playing at A&M he was talking about the route tree. Its the routes wr's run...he said LSU had a very complex passing game...I take that to mean more complex than most college teams and similar to what you might see in the NFL. Our passing game sucked even worse at the time and what I took form his comments was we should simplify the routes and reads for the wr & qb
re: allright, you know it alls. why can't we develop qb's?Posted by tigerfoot on 12/2/15 at 3:07 pm to stephendomalley
WHY CANT WE DEVELOP QBS?
I assume by DEVELOP you mean improvement over time. Correct?
SALVIATI has posted graphs till his fingers have bled showing consistent improvement in our QBs YOY in rating, completion percentage, and YPA.
SO, now that that is cleared up.....will you and your ilk stop?
And if you will not accept the data that says your position is wrong, why do you ask in the first place.
I assume by DEVELOP you mean improvement over time. Correct?
SALVIATI has posted graphs till his fingers have bled showing consistent improvement in our QBs YOY in rating, completion percentage, and YPA.
SO, now that that is cleared up.....will you and your ilk stop?
And if you will not accept the data that says your position is wrong, why do you ask in the first place.
re: allright, you know it alls. why can't we develop qb's?Posted by Rickdaddy4188 on 12/2/15 at 3:08 pm to stephendomalley
The reason our passing struggles is because each of our qbs aside form JRuss and Mett have a major flaw that is very hard to coach out of a player.
JLEE didn't handle pressure well at all.
JJ refused to throw open wrs and when his pocket got muddy he would always drop his eyes from down field which is a problem.
Jennings and Harris just don't have the accuracy to consistently hurt teams on 3rd down.
Also, our scheme asks dual threat qbs to do things they've rarely done if ever.they are asked to read defenses while back peddling. They are asked to throw open wrs when they've not had to do that in highschool. IMO if we aren't gonna simplify the offense then we née to stop recruiting dual threat qbs because they don't look good in our scheme until their Junior years.
As far as playcalling goes our coaches would call more passing plays if they have confidence in our players to execute. They see the players execute in practice and they know our players strengths and weaknesses far better than anyone of this board. They call more deep routes because they know Harris has a great deep ball. They call less short timing routes because Harris struggles throwing timing routes. Once Harris can execute short timing routes in practice consistently they will run more in the games.
JLEE didn't handle pressure well at all.
JJ refused to throw open wrs and when his pocket got muddy he would always drop his eyes from down field which is a problem.
Jennings and Harris just don't have the accuracy to consistently hurt teams on 3rd down.
Also, our scheme asks dual threat qbs to do things they've rarely done if ever.they are asked to read defenses while back peddling. They are asked to throw open wrs when they've not had to do that in highschool. IMO if we aren't gonna simplify the offense then we née to stop recruiting dual threat qbs because they don't look good in our scheme until their Junior years.
As far as playcalling goes our coaches would call more passing plays if they have confidence in our players to execute. They see the players execute in practice and they know our players strengths and weaknesses far better than anyone of this board. They call more deep routes because they know Harris has a great deep ball. They call less short timing routes because Harris struggles throwing timing routes. Once Harris can execute short timing routes in practice consistently they will run more in the games.
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