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Message
2013 offense vs 2006-2007 offenses
Posted on 9/6/13 at 6:40 pm
Posted on 9/6/13 at 6:40 pm
For me the 2006 LSU offense was the most talented in the Les Miles era, with 2007 a close second.
The 2007 bunch won the BCS championship so its hard to argue against them....but when the staff turned JR and company loose....to me the 2006 bunch were the hardest to stop.
The 2013 version has only played ONE game, but here's how I see them stacking up by position group, after watching the TCU game a few times.
WR/TE: There is no Dwayne Bowe equivalent on this years team, but I do think that Landry and OBJ compare favorably to Davis and Doucet from 2006 and Doucet and Byrd from 2007. LaFell had an uneven season in 2007 but he did possess NFL talent and also is probably a step above anyone on this years team. We don't really know much about the TE's on this years team yet, but though Richard Dickson was good, he wasn't overwhelming so I do think this years bunch can come close to his production. We shall see.
OL: Without a doubt this years OL will be better than either the 2006 or 2007 group. Black and big Herm (and Arnold when he wasn't hurt) were a good pair on the left side for those teams, but Collins and Alexander will be slightly better this year. The right side of those teams was the weak point of those teams. The 2007 tandem of Hitt and Stewart were just average at best. Hawkins and Turner on this years team will give us the best right side of the line that LSU has seen in some time. Porter is the weak link of course, but it wasn't like Helms was an all american so I give the overall advantage to the 2013 group.
RB: With Jeremy Hill in this group, and the over all talent behind him, I think this group can be slightly better than the 2007 group featuring Hester, Williams and Scott.
QB: Tough one because we haven't seen much of the "new and improved" Mettenberger. Russel and Flynn are also a tough comparison because although JR had the most physical talent of any QB to ever put on the P&G, the mental part of his game was always in question. Flynn was pretty sporadic, but he made lots of big plays to win big games and ultimately thats what counts isn't it? I think Mett has arm talent that can rival JR and may turn out to be a match for Flynn's mental toughness. The jury is still out on this one as far as I am concerned.
So who's the better offense? If we stay healthy, if we can find one more reliable WR threat and IF the Mett we saw Saturday turns out to be the real deal, I think the 2013 LSU offense will be the most productive and hardest to stop offense that Les Miles has fielded yet.
The 2007 bunch won the BCS championship so its hard to argue against them....but when the staff turned JR and company loose....to me the 2006 bunch were the hardest to stop.
The 2013 version has only played ONE game, but here's how I see them stacking up by position group, after watching the TCU game a few times.
WR/TE: There is no Dwayne Bowe equivalent on this years team, but I do think that Landry and OBJ compare favorably to Davis and Doucet from 2006 and Doucet and Byrd from 2007. LaFell had an uneven season in 2007 but he did possess NFL talent and also is probably a step above anyone on this years team. We don't really know much about the TE's on this years team yet, but though Richard Dickson was good, he wasn't overwhelming so I do think this years bunch can come close to his production. We shall see.
OL: Without a doubt this years OL will be better than either the 2006 or 2007 group. Black and big Herm (and Arnold when he wasn't hurt) were a good pair on the left side for those teams, but Collins and Alexander will be slightly better this year. The right side of those teams was the weak point of those teams. The 2007 tandem of Hitt and Stewart were just average at best. Hawkins and Turner on this years team will give us the best right side of the line that LSU has seen in some time. Porter is the weak link of course, but it wasn't like Helms was an all american so I give the overall advantage to the 2013 group.
RB: With Jeremy Hill in this group, and the over all talent behind him, I think this group can be slightly better than the 2007 group featuring Hester, Williams and Scott.
QB: Tough one because we haven't seen much of the "new and improved" Mettenberger. Russel and Flynn are also a tough comparison because although JR had the most physical talent of any QB to ever put on the P&G, the mental part of his game was always in question. Flynn was pretty sporadic, but he made lots of big plays to win big games and ultimately thats what counts isn't it? I think Mett has arm talent that can rival JR and may turn out to be a match for Flynn's mental toughness. The jury is still out on this one as far as I am concerned.
So who's the better offense? If we stay healthy, if we can find one more reliable WR threat and IF the Mett we saw Saturday turns out to be the real deal, I think the 2013 LSU offense will be the most productive and hardest to stop offense that Les Miles has fielded yet.
12
Posted on 9/6/13 at 6:44 pm to lsuexpert57
Nice job.
Posted on 9/6/13 at 6:49 pm to lsuexpert57
quote:
the mental part of his game was always in question.
He wasn't any dumber on the field than Flynn.
quote:
but he made lots of big plays to win big games and ultimately thats what counts isn't it?
Russell did this. See Alabama 2005, ASU 2005, Tennessee 2006, Ole Miss 2006, etc.
Posted on 9/6/13 at 7:28 pm to lsuexpert57
quote:I'll entertain this '07/''13 equality concept after UF, but so far, so good.
The jury is still out on this one as far as I am concerned.
Posted on 9/6/13 at 7:34 pm to lsuexpert57
quote:
lsuexpert57
Stopped right there.
Posted on 9/6/13 at 7:58 pm to lsuexpert57
I think you're spot on. The missing link is a Lafell type reciever. Hope Dural can step up. Then maybe a bit more production from D smith and Dickson.
Posted on 9/6/13 at 8:07 pm to lsuexpert57
quote:
JR had the most physical talent of any QB to ever put on the P&G, the mental part of his game was always in question.
No... No, it fricking wasn't. Why do people say this? He was one of the most instinctive QBs we've ever had. Infinitely better QB than Flynn in every way (when Jimbo allowed him to do his thing, that is).
Posted on 9/6/13 at 8:10 pm to lsu2006
quote:
Why do people say this?
You know why.
Posted on 9/6/13 at 9:03 pm to mattz1122
wow, one game in and we're doing this already, huh?
Ok, I'll play:
QB- Russell wins this hands down. Better arm (by a lot). People forget just HOW strong his arm was. And he took a lot more beef to bring down. Flynn- Not as much arm as Mett, but more mobile. To this point, both still had more pocket awareness than Mett too. We'll see if Mett improves on that this season.
WR- Landry and Beckham hold up well in comparison to any pair, but there's no 3rd guy as of yet. That sets the 2006 team's group apart.
RB- hard to say. Blue and Hilliard don't really bring a lot to the table; Blue's competent at least. We don't know if Magee can really be the explosive change of pace he seems to be, just yet. Hill might be the single best back in consideration, but we need more than last year to go by.
O-line- we'll see. Last year they sucked for over half the season; let's see if they can protect Mett throughout the season (not just one game). And let's see them open up some holes on short yardage.
Ok, I'll play:
QB- Russell wins this hands down. Better arm (by a lot). People forget just HOW strong his arm was. And he took a lot more beef to bring down. Flynn- Not as much arm as Mett, but more mobile. To this point, both still had more pocket awareness than Mett too. We'll see if Mett improves on that this season.
WR- Landry and Beckham hold up well in comparison to any pair, but there's no 3rd guy as of yet. That sets the 2006 team's group apart.
RB- hard to say. Blue and Hilliard don't really bring a lot to the table; Blue's competent at least. We don't know if Magee can really be the explosive change of pace he seems to be, just yet. Hill might be the single best back in consideration, but we need more than last year to go by.
O-line- we'll see. Last year they sucked for over half the season; let's see if they can protect Mett throughout the season (not just one game). And let's see them open up some holes on short yardage.
Posted on 9/6/13 at 9:48 pm to lsuexpert57
total stats, maybe...but people forget had many 3-and-outs we had in the first 3 quarters, with lots of darts in soft coverage in the 4th quarter to make the overall stat line look great, when the overall offensive flow of the game was inadequate
Posted on 9/6/13 at 9:53 pm to Scoob
quote:
O-line
quote:
Last year they sucked for over half the season
Injuries and Hurst's personal issues were the primary reasons for this.
Posted on 9/6/13 at 10:09 pm to lsuexpert57
quote:Seriously?
Russel and Flynn are also a tough comparison because although JR had the most physical talent of any QB to ever put on the P&G, the mental part of his game was always in question.
How many of you are there?
Flynn 2007 - 56% completion percentage. 21 TDs/11 INTs.
Russell - most INTs in any year: 9. Completion %: 50% (2004, SO), 60%, 67%.
Russell was lights out better than Flynn in every way except his .6 yards per rush compared to Flynn's 2.7.
Posted on 9/6/13 at 10:36 pm to Football_Freak
quote:
total stats, maybe...but people forget had many 3-and-outs we had in the first 3 quarters, with lots of darts in soft coverage in the 4th quarter to make the overall stat line look great, when the overall offensive flow of the game was inadequate
Wait, what game are you referring to here?
Posted on 9/6/13 at 10:39 pm to mattz1122
quote:
You know why.
Raycess.
Posted on 9/6/13 at 10:44 pm to drizztiger
quote:
Russell was lights out better than Flynn in every way except his .6 yards per rush compared to Flynn's 2.7.
I'm not a JR basher, I was one of his biggest fans when he was here and still think, from strictly a physical tools standpoint, he has no peers in LSU football history. In fact every NFL scout thought the same thing in the 2007 draft.
I think everyone just assumes you are playing the race card if you question a black QB's game management skills or his situational awareness, but guess what, SOME black QB's do struggle with those things just like SOME white QB's do!
JR could not only throw a grape through a brick wall, he was also extremely accurate, could throw with touch if he needed to. He had great pocket presence, good escape ability, could throw on the run, and like someone else mentioned, he made many big plays to win big games.
BUT! He didn't make enough big plays to win the BIGGEST games, the games that win championships. The FLA and AUB games in 2006 to be exact. Yeah I know those losses aren't all on him and yeah I know Flynn lost at Kentucky and ARK in 2007...but how come Joe Montana is considered to be greater than Dan Fouts or Dan Marino? Because he was a better pure quarterback than they were?
At the end of the day, Flynn and JR only played in one true Championship Game apiece. The 2005 SEC championship game for JR(in which he was injured before the end of the game) and the 2007 BCSNCG for Flynn.
So fairly or unfairly, I give Flynn a slight edge, but at the end of the day, they were both great college QB's.
Posted on 9/6/13 at 10:46 pm to Darth Miles
quote:
Stopped right there.
Uhhh...and who are you again?
Posted on 9/6/13 at 11:11 pm to lsuexpert57
quote:I get your point, kinda. And you saying it isn't race is all fine and dandy.
BUT! He didn't make enough big plays to win the BIGGEST games, the games that win championships. The FLA and AUB games in 2006 to be exact. Yeah I know those losses aren't all on him and yeah I know Flynn lost at Kentucky and ARK in 2007.
The real issue is Flynn got his team a Championship and Russell did not. I will say this:
Russell would have won 2x NCs 2006/2007 if not for terrible game plan and refs @ AU in 2006 and if he stayed in 2007.
Flynn bided his time to play as a RS SR, but was lucky as hell to lead the team to the NC and didn't even play in the SECCG.
There is no comparison between the two at LSU imo. Flynn held the clipboard for Russell every year and would have done the same in 2007. In which Russell would have led LSU to the same NC.
Posted on 9/6/13 at 11:45 pm to SportTiger1
quote:
Wait, what game are you referring to here?
I'm wondering this too.
Posted on 9/7/13 at 3:16 am to noonan
Just for comparison:
Flynn: Doucet,Lafell,Byrd
JR: Bowe,Davis,Doucet
Lafist tossed the ball over his head for 2 picks in 07, where as I remember in 05-06' amazing catches being made off of a 50yd gunslinger back there. To me Flynn was more consistent, JR had more talent. For instance the pi no call at Auburn should have been an easy TD with a better throw. The 06' Team Had 3 first Rd NFL picks along with Russell as well.
Flynn: Doucet,Lafell,Byrd
JR: Bowe,Davis,Doucet
Lafist tossed the ball over his head for 2 picks in 07, where as I remember in 05-06' amazing catches being made off of a 50yd gunslinger back there. To me Flynn was more consistent, JR had more talent. For instance the pi no call at Auburn should have been an easy TD with a better throw. The 06' Team Had 3 first Rd NFL picks along with Russell as well.
This post was edited on 9/7/13 at 3:19 am
Posted on 9/7/13 at 4:04 am to lsuexpert57
Jamarcus was a far better qb than Flynn at LSU. It's not even close.
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