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Has LSU D been more dominant with massive D-Line, or rangier players?
Posted on 12/13/15 at 4:31 pm
Posted on 12/13/15 at 4:31 pm
Seems like most of the elite years on D when no one could run on Tiger D was when they had huge DE's like Tyson Jackson, Marcus Spears, Marquise Hill, etc along with giants at DT like Kyle Williams, Glen Dorsey, and Chad Lavalais
With the SEC usually having the biggest O lineman (Big 10 rivaling), seems logical it would be easier to hold up at the point of attack with larger players in the trenches setting the edge.
Thoughts?
With the SEC usually having the biggest O lineman (Big 10 rivaling), seems logical it would be easier to hold up at the point of attack with larger players in the trenches setting the edge.
Thoughts?
10
Posted on 12/13/15 at 4:37 pm to AjaxFury
None of those D-Tackles are giants. I played next to Dorsey in high school, and he was about 6'1". He was a damn animal though. Chad Lavalais was on the small side, for sure.
Posted on 12/13/15 at 4:38 pm to AjaxFury
quote:
Tyson Jackson, Marcus Spears, Marquise Hill, etc along with giants at DT like Kyle Williams, Glen Dorsey, and Chad Lavalais
NFL d lineman don't grow on trees.
Posted on 12/13/15 at 4:40 pm to AjaxFury
I'm all for mass up front. The rangy guys look good running around, but they tend to get pushed around late in games.
Posted on 12/13/15 at 4:44 pm to tFearIsReal
I was focusing more on the DE's....Hill was 280 IIRC. Spears was 300 lbs at DE.
Should of been more clear: talking not so much height, but weight, & sheer strength punching thru the Oline, as opposed to guys like Danielle Hunter who was 240 lbs and was coached to run as wide as he could using speed over strength.
So do you think we had 7-10 year run with anomalies in terms of size? Thought Chavis started recruiting a different type of lineman and that was the main cause....
Should of been more clear: talking not so much height, but weight, & sheer strength punching thru the Oline, as opposed to guys like Danielle Hunter who was 240 lbs and was coached to run as wide as he could using speed over strength.
So do you think we had 7-10 year run with anomalies in terms of size? Thought Chavis started recruiting a different type of lineman and that was the main cause....
Posted on 12/13/15 at 4:48 pm to AjaxFury
I think coach O wants to bring in some bigger dt's, and de we have some big de with logan and Roddy
Posted on 12/13/15 at 4:52 pm to Blktiger
quote:
I think coach O wants to bring in some bigger dt's, and de we have some big de with logan and Roddy
Would love to see that on first/2nd down...mix in guys like key on obvious passing situations or to give the OT a different look. Thanks for the info
Posted on 12/13/15 at 5:12 pm to AjaxFury
It would be nice to have more Brockers-types (6'6" 325 lbs). He is probably my favorite interior d-lineman of the past decade.
Posted on 12/13/15 at 5:15 pm to seanerin
To me herron and Gilmore light came on towards the end of the season, I would love to see them play more
Posted on 12/13/15 at 5:18 pm to Blktiger
Herron started to show what all his recruiting hype is about. Big, strong, and lightning fast.
Posted on 12/13/15 at 8:29 pm to AjaxFury
4-3 Under maximize best of both world!
Posted on 12/14/15 at 7:52 am to AjaxFury
Those players you listed were massive individuals with great range. And we had a multitude of those guys when we were a dominant team. I can see the incoming class adding to that, but right now, we are a little small at DE and do not have depth at DT. We need back to back recruiting classes loaded full of DLine talent to get back to that place. But generally I would agree with you that our most elite defensive years were when people had trouble running on us.
Posted on 12/14/15 at 8:31 am to seanerin
I really liked Drake Nevis too. People seem to forget about him and the monster he was in the middle.
Posted on 12/14/15 at 11:18 am to AjaxFury
The focus is not necessarily on the size of the DT. Both of our starting DT this year are in the (6'4" - 6'5") , 300lb range. The focus must be on the DE position. I think the size needs to improve there. Don't get me wrong I like Key and his athletic abilities, but we need more stability at the point of attack and to be able to hold our position in the trenches. Better size DE to DE will allow us to dictate the line of scrimmage and therefore use our linebacker running abilities to chase down plays.
This post was edited on 12/14/15 at 11:27 am
Posted on 12/14/15 at 1:15 pm to AjaxFury
quote:
So do you think we had 7-10 year run with anomalies in terms of size? Thought Chavis started recruiting a different type of lineman and that was the main cause..
Chavis ran a different system than what Saban/Pelini did. Recruits changed on that, or aleast, coaching changed...which affected defensive play and output at different positions.
Posted on 12/14/15 at 8:43 pm to AjaxFury
This is a trick question. You need both. If you don't have the massive guys who can hold position, you can't dictate down and distance against power running teams. Some 240 lb back will win the Heisman on you.
But if you don't have the pass-rushers and quick DE's, teams with a quality passing game and/or spread offense can gash you. See Manziel's Aggies, Ohio State.
If you have Danielle Hunter or Arden Key, that's great. But if you continually put them across from a 315 lb tackle on 3rd and short, they won't get too many opportunities to display their skills.
Basically, LSU needs two more Davon Godchaux's to emerge from this recruiting class to have a dominant line like '03 or '11.
But if you don't have the pass-rushers and quick DE's, teams with a quality passing game and/or spread offense can gash you. See Manziel's Aggies, Ohio State.
If you have Danielle Hunter or Arden Key, that's great. But if you continually put them across from a 315 lb tackle on 3rd and short, they won't get too many opportunities to display their skills.
Basically, LSU needs two more Davon Godchaux's to emerge from this recruiting class to have a dominant line like '03 or '11.
Posted on 12/16/15 at 8:13 am to seanerin
quote:
t would be nice to have more Brockers-types (6'6" 325 lbs). He is probably my favorite interior d-lineman of the past decade.
And deservingly so. Brockers was the unheralded guy that was the key to that great 2011 defense. He commanded double and triple teams and simply could not be moved from the interior. He was the greatest DL of the last few years and was a huge loss when he left after only his sophomore season.
Posted on 12/16/15 at 12:53 pm to Mulerider
With LB'er looking green next year, I believe if they can recruit some size at DE, that will mitigate some of the damage of being so light at that position.
Posted on 12/16/15 at 5:31 pm to AjaxFury
The 2003 D-line was the best against the run, and they were BIG. Also, Lionel Turner was the MLB. The game has obviously changed since then, but I still favor big guys up front to shut down the run.
Chavis was more about speed than size, but the 2011 D-line was also very good against the run. That D-line had an incredible amount of depth with a great mix of size and speed.
Melvin Oliver and Lavar Edwards were guys that were key players on these lines -- two guys that were sort of underrated, but provided size and strength from a depth standpoint. They were very similar players. Both were big DEs who were strong against the run, but both could also rush the passer. They both would slide inside to DT sometimes during their career in passing situations. Guys like Oliver and Edwards provide rotational opportunities that are sometimes overlooked, but very valuable.
Rushing Yards Allowed - Per Game & Per Attempt
2003 - 67 & 2.3
2011 - 90.1 & 2.7
Since 2000, these are the two best years for each stat.
Chavis was more about speed than size, but the 2011 D-line was also very good against the run. That D-line had an incredible amount of depth with a great mix of size and speed.
Melvin Oliver and Lavar Edwards were guys that were key players on these lines -- two guys that were sort of underrated, but provided size and strength from a depth standpoint. They were very similar players. Both were big DEs who were strong against the run, but both could also rush the passer. They both would slide inside to DT sometimes during their career in passing situations. Guys like Oliver and Edwards provide rotational opportunities that are sometimes overlooked, but very valuable.
Rushing Yards Allowed - Per Game & Per Attempt
2003 - 67 & 2.3
2011 - 90.1 & 2.7
Since 2000, these are the two best years for each stat.
Posted on 12/16/15 at 7:14 pm to AjaxFury
This is still how Saban recruits his dline and he puts out the best line every year. I don't see the light DE fad working out. We have maintained good run D, but we have not improved greatly on pass rush. Give me 275+ lbs defensive ends that can play 75% of the snaps
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