Repubs don't have a clue - Page 6 - TigerDroppings.com

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SlowFlowPro
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re: Repubs don't have a clue


quote:

There's no reason why they couldn't be written if the proposal allows them to

but that would probably take months, which is not a short term solution to this problem

quote:

There were plans before which provided the same coverage these new plans did and at the same costs.

at much cheaper costs that weren't adjusted to the reality of the ACA. "going back" will murder the insurance companies







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SlowFlowPro
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re: Repubs don't have a clue


quote:

Which is why industry will have to absorb those costs until the government can get it the website and exchanges fully operational.

"industry" won't absorb these costs. consumers absorb these costs






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Jbird
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re: Repubs don't have a clue


quote:

"industry" won't absorb these costs. consumers absorb these costs


Bing frickin O. This idiot in the WH doesn't care.






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Vegas Bengal
Member since Feb 2008
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re: Repubs don't have a clue


You're confusing plans in the exchange with plans out the exchange. You're agreeing with me re plans in the exchange. It's not sustainable with this plan. The plans outside the exchange already have huge prices meant to cover the risk involved.

There were already polices which existed prior to the ACA which provided for pre-existing and added coverage and had the cost built in. They exist now. Thy will always exist. The price is adjusted for the risk.

That's different with the policies in the exchange because of a lack of competition and set prices for providers and insurers.

One is market based and the other is not. I would think you could understand that.



This post was edited on 11/14 at 10:20 am


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MFn GIMP
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Owensboro, Kentucky
Member since Feb 2011
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re: Repubs don't have a clue


quote:

The problem with the tea partiers is they play checkers. They're not intelligent enough to play chess. This is a great example.

So is Obama playing chess when, thanks to his unlawful policy, insurance companies will now be required to send out cancellation notices 1 month before the mid-terms?






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MFn GIMP
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Member since Feb 2011
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re: Repubs don't have a clue


quote:

The shitty policies won't have the same coverages and will be less expensive.

You do realize that the major increase in premiums is not due to new coverages but because the ACA doesn't allow for "price discrimination" based on illness, right?






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boosiebadazz
Member since Feb 2008
45284 posts

re: Repubs don't have a clue


Not long-term, but it may for the short-term.





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Jbird
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re: Repubs don't have a clue


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They exist now.

Do they adhere to the new law as it pertains to coverage? If not how the frick can I keep something that has been cancelled? So shitty policies that don't cover Odramacare requirements are now suddenly shitty policies we can keep?






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WildTchoupitoulas
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Member since Jan 2010
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re: Repubs don't have a clue


quote:

Nobody in D.C. is working for the people.

In a sense they are.

The Constitution recognizes the right of the People to free speech and through which to petition the government for the redress of grievances.

Through Common Law and our court system we have de-facto defined the People to include corporations. But while these corporate persons retain some of the rights of the People, they do not share the same responsibilities of the People, their sole responsibility being to create wealth for their shareholders, and enjoy a protected status relative to other People.

Additionally, our court system has defined "speech" to include the transfer of wealth from the People to elected officials.

So now we have wealth-generating entities recognized as People exercising their right of petitioning the government, through speech (transfer of wealth), for redress of their grievances.

When the government examines the grievances as petitioned by the People, they focus on those people who provide the most speech. When transfer of wealth from the People to elected officials represents free speech to petition the government, and People who actually create wealth are using this wealth to petition the government, you are at a disadvantage if you do not actually create wealth yourself. More wealth = more speech.

So, in short, the government is representing the People perfectly by addressing the grievances expressed by the most speech. If you want your personal grievances addressed, you need to speak up over the speech of others petitioning the government. In other words, you need to incorporate, create wealth, and give elected officials more wealth than anyone one else.

It's really that simple.






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SlowFlowPro
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re: Repubs don't have a clue


quote:

Not long-term, but it may for the short-term.

sticker shock will still exist b/c prices are still going to be high






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Vegas Bengal
Member since Feb 2008
24244 posts

re: Repubs don't have a clue


quote:

but that would probably take months, which is not a short term solution to this problem
they don't have insurance now. They'd be in the exact position if you canceled Obamacare today. You're arguing in circles.

quote:

at much cheaper costs that weren't adjusted to the reality of the ACA. "going back" will murder the insurance companies


No they weren't. The risk and cost given the type of coverage is always factored in. A friend I know has been paying $3000 per month for his family policy bc he's a hypochondriac and gets procedures done constantly. You get what you pay for. It's the market. Something a libertarian should understand.

And "going back" would put the insurers in the exact same position they were in relative to that clientele and the same position if we did away with Obamacare.






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Lsut81
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re: Repubs don't have a clue


quote:

You're confusing plans in the exchange with plans out the exchange.


If a company like BC/BS is in the exchange they have taken on additional costs due to the legislation... They can either

a) Lets old plans roll back, eat costs of people they have newly insured via exchanges with conditions
b) Cancel ALL new plans and only go back to the old plans.

You can't do both






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SlowFlowPro
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re: Repubs don't have a clue


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Do they adhere to the new law as it pertains to coverage?

it's not even about that

it's about the new costs that have adjusted prices

the policies that were canceled have not bee adjusted due to the cost reality that is ACA. that's why i call those plans mythical. they never existed in this system, and we cannot just take their old pricing and apply it to the new system. IF WE MADE THAT ASSUMPTION, the insurance industry would basically shut down






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SlowFlowPro
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re: Repubs don't have a clue


quote:

they don't have insurance now.

but i'm not assuming (in the ACA reality) they won't buy (inflated) insurance. why are you?

quote:

They'd be in the exact position if you canceled Obamacare today.

i agree. it's a shitty law and has fricked over millions of people, and even if repealed, would frick over millions

as with all entrenched entitlements, we would have to phase it out/repeal over time. i'm not insane

quote:

The risk and cost given the type of coverage is always factored in.

not over the entire pool that these companies will have to insure now

these policies don't exist in a vacuum. they exist in the pool of ALL the policies these companies offer. adjustment to one of these policies will lead to a change in another. it's similar to an ecosystem

quote:

And "going back" would put the insurers in the exact same position they were in relative to that clientele and the same position if we did away with Obamacare.

only if Obamacare's provisions that force these companies to cover people with PECs, or other cost-raising issues in OTHER policies are removed



This post was edited on 11/14 at 10:34 am


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Vegas Bengal
Member since Feb 2008
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re: Repubs don't have a clue


Let's assume you're right and this will do everything you say it will, will it not lead to a more fricked up system and in turn will give Republicans greater power to do away with Obamacare?

I'm saying this will lead to a fricked up unsustainable exchange. And you're basically arguing the same along with insurance outside the exchange. So why are you opposed to it? It would accelerate the demise of Obamacare.

You guys are so conditioned to oppose anything that you oppose everything including that which will eventually help your cause.

Everything you're arguing re the impossibility of placing in place plans in 1.5 months would still be if you snapped your finger and did away with Obamacare today. Have some consistency man.






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SlowFlowPro
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re: Repubs don't have a clue


quote:

will it not lead to a more fricked up system and in turn will give Republicans greater power to do away with Obamacare?

theoretically possible, but i don't think he is playing politics (i'm not, either)

we're actually addressing the issues and how they affect people, and how this is just nonsense

this discussion isn't about political points

quote:

You guys are so conditioned to oppose anything that you oppose everything including that which will eventually help your cause.

this discussion isn't about winning elections. it's about stupid policy

quote:

Everything you're arguing re the impossibility of placing in place plans in 1.5 months would still be if you snapped your finger and did away with Obamacare today. Have some consistency man.

and this, again, is an example of how this framing is so silly

the problem is the ACA. a band-aid solution does nothing except frick up the system for everyone else

this discussion is about policy and its effects on people, not winning elections






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Lsut81
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re: Repubs don't have a clue


quote:

So why are you opposed to it?


Because I want real Healthcare reform to take place... I don't want the entire Healthcare Market to implode.

Here is what I want:

Coverage for pre-existing conditions
Protection from being dropped
Interstate insurance competition
Malpractice reform






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Antonio Moss
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Mar 2006
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re: Repubs don't have a clue


quote:

You're confusing plans in the exchange with plans out the exchange. You're agreeing with me re plans in the exchange. It's not sustainable with this plan. The plans outside the exchange already have huge prices meant to cover the risk involved.


So plans outside of the exchange don't have to meet the ACA requirements?






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Vegas Bengal
Member since Feb 2008
24244 posts

re: Repubs don't have a clue


The architect of Romneycare and Obamacare was on O'Reilly a few weeks back and Bill asked him "why can't you delay Obamacare for one year?" The answer was because the only people signing up are the poor with preexisting conditions. If you delay it, you cause an imbalance such that the younger healthier people don't enroll and it makes it unsustainable.

This proposal does the exact thing in effect. It causes the same problems with the exchange. If you favored the delay you have to favor this because it's does the same damage to Obamacare, which is why I imagine Obama will oppose it.






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Lsut81
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re: Repubs don't have a clue


quote:

If you delay it, you cause an imbalance such that the younger healthier people don't enroll and it makes it unsustainable.


Exactly, which is why the ONLY proposal right now should be repeal/replace.






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