Repubs don't have a clue | Page 4 | TigerDroppings.com

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Alt26
LSU Fan
Member since Mar 2010
3650 posts

re: Repubs don't have a clue


Pl
quote:

ease explain how "If you like your plan, you can keep it" does ANYTHING to help people?

I'm not talking about in theory, rainbows and unicorns, world... I'm talking about real world, logical sense


This is the problem. Many don't live in reality. Politicians are great at coming up with good ideas in theory. However, they have no clue how to realistically implement said ideas. Sometimes the damn real world just gets in the way of my great plans!!!!!






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Antonio Moss
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Mar 2006
28905 posts

re: Repubs don't have a clue


quote:

"we can't just add more laws to a bad law that is hurting you. we have to repeal that law, and others like it."


"This level of incompetence cannot be corrected."






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MFn GIMP
LSU Fan
Owensboro, Kentucky
Member since Feb 2011
8615 posts

re: Repubs don't have a clue


If the GOP wasn't seen as trying to fix the issue, however cosmetic and ineffective the fix is, stupid voters would destroy them.

Right now, all of the animus over increase healthcare costs is directed at Obama and the Democrats. If the GOP said, sorry guys we can't do anything right now because you didn't vote for our guys in 2012, tough luck, they would get destroyed.

Politically the best thing to do is pass a cosmetic fix, because most voters are idiots, while also continuing to talk about repeal and replace for 2015-16.






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Lsut81
USA Fan
Member since Jun 2005
64939 posts

re: Repubs don't have a clue


quote:

Dems are pushing a similar legislation to "force" insurance companies to keep the plans. R's should support that


So Repubs say they are for "Free Enterprise" but they should vote for govt telling a private company to roll back old plans?

I wouldn't expect anything less from them though.






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MFn GIMP
LSU Fan
Owensboro, Kentucky
Member since Feb 2011
8615 posts

re: Repubs don't have a clue


And it doesn't really matter what the House passes because it is never going to pass the Senate and Obama would just veto it if it somehow does pass.





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Jay Quest
Navy Fan
Once removed from Massachusetts
Member since Nov 2009
4972 posts

re: Repubs don't have a clue


quote:

So Repubs say they are for "Free Enterprise" but they should vote for govt telling a private company to roll back old plans?

First of all it can't be done. Secondly, if it could be done it wouldn't be the GOP forcing anyone to do anything. They would only be telling insurance companies to ignore the obamacare mandates and carry on.



This post was edited on 11/14 at 9:37 am


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SpidermanTUba
LSU Fan
Member since May 2004
29798 posts

re: Repubs don't have a clue


quote:


When countered with the contention that its a little too late for that. Insurance companies have already put into place the new policies and there is NO WAY to rollback to old plans within 1 month and you can't force them to, neither of them had a counter.


If millions would otherwise opt to pay the penalty - as the right is claiming - you wouldn't need to force them to.






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Poodlebrain
LSU Fan
Way Right of Rex
Member since Jan 2004
15459 posts

re: Repubs don't have a clue


quote:

Do they not understand it's not that simple? Contracts with providers have already been severed for the canceled policies and replaced with new contracts for the new policies. It would take months to even get the original contracts back in place. To attempt to pass a proposal that says you can keep your canceled insurance is nothing more than a "we tried to do something" feel good measure, in my opinion.
How would this address the problem of people with serious illnesses, or medical conditions, who had their policies cancelled? Do you think the insurance companies are going to want to re-issue prior policies to those people without premium adjustments? The insurance companies will not be able to get the same arrangements with healthcare providers, and they are not going to just eat any cost increases. So any bill to reinstate prior policies would have to include an unlimited guarantee to the insurance companies that the government would make good any losses they incur. Otherwise the insurance companies might not satisfy state requirements for liquidity or capitalization.

If all those whose plans would be cancelled under Obamacare elect to go back to their prior plans, then how do the plans can the exchanges possibly be sustainable? The premium rates for 2014 will prove grossly inadequate, and the proposed premiums for 2015 will simply be unaffordable for the unsubsidized, and the amounts of subsidies authorized will dwarf the revenue generated with the intent to pay for the subsidies.

These proposals are not a "fix" for Obamacare in any sense. They actually increase the negative fiscal impact of Obamacare. Any Republican stupid enough to vote for a bill of this type deserves the scorn voters will have in Nov. 2014 for those who allowed the damage of Obamacare to be increased.






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Lsut81
USA Fan
Member since Jun 2005
64939 posts

re: Repubs don't have a clue


quote:

They would only be telling insurance companies to ignore the obamacare mandates and carry on.


Those plans are GONE... They would have to force insurance companies to reinstate old plans at the same prices.






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Jay Quest
Navy Fan
Once removed from Massachusetts
Member since Nov 2009
4972 posts

re: Repubs don't have a clue


quote:

They would have to force insurance companies to reinstate old plans at the same prices.

Not force, allow.






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Lsut81
USA Fan
Member since Jun 2005
64939 posts

re: Repubs don't have a clue


quote:

Not force, allow.


Please tell me why the insurance companies would choose to take losses rather than stay with what they have already put into place?

They have taken on more sick people and the new plans/increased premiums mitigate those costs. The insurance companies aren't going to say "frick it, we'll eat all those additional expenses and give the other people back cheaper plans"

The only way they would do that is if the govt gives them subsidies to cover the difference in costs.






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Vegas Bengal
Member since Feb 2008
25683 posts

re: Repubs don't have a clue


No they wouldn't. This would just allow insurers to offer whatever plans they want as they did before. Stop being so dramatic.

And if your goal is to kill Obamacare rather than just help people (which clearly it is) then you should favor this. The exchanges require an influx of young healthy people to make it work. Allowing shitty policies geared towards young people to exist takes the very people needed to make the exchanges work out the exchanges. By doing this you not only show the American people you're not being hacking obstructionists (which clearly you are) but instead trying to alleviate the problem, when in actuality you're compounding the problem and achieving your goal.

The problem with the tea partiers is they play checkers. They're not intelligent enough to play chess. This is a great example.






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Jay Quest
Navy Fan
Once removed from Massachusetts
Member since Nov 2009
4972 posts

re: Repubs don't have a clue


quote:

Please tell me why the insurance companies would choose to take losses

Why would they be taking losses? Were they taking losses before the cancellations with these policies?







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SlowFlowPro
Stanford Fan
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
297970 posts

re: Repubs don't have a clue


quote:

This would just allow insurers to offer whatever plans they want as they did before. Stop being so dramatic.

how is this even workable? the system has changed. costs have changed. these policies have no provider agreements on rates...how do the insurance companies create these policies on short notice?

quote:

And if your goal is to kill Obamacare rather than just help people

i believe repealing obamacare helps people

quote:

Allowing shitty policies

i'd imagine the vast majority of these plans are not "shitty", and i don't even know what makes them "shitty" in your eyes

most have nominal issues like a male's plan not having maternity coverage, or a lack of mental health coverage...coverage that works for the individuals

quote:

The problem with the tea partiers is they play checkers. They're not intelligent enough to play chess. This is a great example.



quote:

By doing this you not only show the American people you're not being hacking obstructionists (which clearly you are) but instead trying to alleviate the problem,

but is it even possible? it's almost assuredly not possible. those plans do not exist anymore

how does a symbolic piece of legislation that isn't possible in reality alleviate a problem?






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SlowFlowPro
Stanford Fan
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
297970 posts

re: Repubs don't have a clue


quote:

Were they taking losses before the cancellations with these policies?

they were not required to offer expensive policies, cover an influx of people with PECs, and other things that raise costs

they have adjusted to the law






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udtiger
LSU Fan
Louisiana
Member since Nov 2006
25510 posts

re: Repubs don't have a clue


Preach it OP





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Lsut81
USA Fan
Member since Jun 2005
64939 posts

re: Repubs don't have a clue


quote:

Why would they be taking losses? Were they taking losses before the cancellations with these policies?



Because they have been forced to offer all of these benefits to people by the law. So they have newly signed up individuals who have pre-existing conditions and the likes.

The plans that were cancelled and rolled into new plans took into account the $$$ of exposure due to the other side of the law. If they roll back to the old plans, the insurance companies will either have to 1) Make the old policies higher costs to offset the increased exposure 2) Make the old policies the old prices and EAT the new exposures.

Remember, the insurance companies on average only make 1-3% profit. There is nothing to give on their end.






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Vegas Bengal
Member since Feb 2008
25683 posts

re: Repubs don't have a clue


quote:

Please tell me why the insurance companies would choose to take losses rather than stay with what they have already put into place? They have taken on more sick people and the new plans/increased premiums mitigate those costs. The insurance companies aren't going to say "frick it, we'll eat all those additional expenses and give the other people back cheaper plans" The only way they would do that is if the govt gives them subsidies to cover the difference in costs.


I think you're confused. There is a difference in what insurers outside the exchanges are obligated to cover and those inside the exchanges. Allowing insurers outside the exchange to offer shitty policies will not cost them additional expenses. But allowing shitty policies outside the exchange will drain the pool of young and healthy inside the exchange which will doom the exchanges.

These proposals by McCain and Landrieu leave Obama between a rock and a hard place because if he opposes them, then he's viewed as non caring. If he allows it, it's the end of his exchanges unless he changes it to some sort of high risk govt backed pool (which it should have been from the start).






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elprez00
New Orleans Saints Fan
Hammond, LA
Member since Sep 2011
13305 posts

re: Repubs don't have a clue


quote:

They would have to force insurance companies to reinstate old plans at the same prices.

Is this even legal?

Whats to stop the insurance companies from laughing at them as they hang up the phone?






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Taxing Authority
LSU Fan
Houston
Member since Feb 2010
22901 posts

re: Repubs don't have a clue


quote:

You mean they'd rather help people in the short-term rather than let them suffer for political gain down the road?
What about the folks that passed the crappy bill? Yes, let's put the entire burden for fixing it on the R-team and completely ignore what the D-team did. Folly.

This is why... It's not really about teams anymore. This is about he government vs the people.






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