Bittersweet Symphony: the best Rolling Stones' song since "Beast of Burden" | TigerDroppings.com

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bobbyray21
Tennessee Fan
Member since Sep 2009
9490 posts

Bittersweet Symphony: the best Rolling Stones' song since "Beast of Burden"



I want to state at the outset that I actually like the Rolling Stones. They haven't put out a decent song in over 30 years, but they put out lots of them back in the day. And if I judge Muhammad Ali* by how he fought between '64-'67 and not how he fought against Larry Holmes when he was well beyond washed up and had in fact already been diagnosed with Parkinsons, then I guess I gotta judge the Stones by their prime as well. Fair is fair.

So, again, I hate what happened to Richard Ashcroft because of the Stones, but I don't hate the Stones. Now shall we proceed.

1955: The Staple Singers record a song called "This May Be The Last time". LINK

1965: The Rolling Stones record a song called "The Last Time". It's a cover of the Staples Singers song and Keith Richards has acknowledged the same. No royalties from this song were ever paid to the Staples Singers. Apparently they didn't need to get permission to do this song or pay royalties off of it because it was a "traditional song". LINK

quote:

"we came up with The Last Time, which was basically re-adapting a traditional Gospel song that had been sung by the Staple Singers, but luckily the song itself goes back into the mists of time."
-Keith Richards


1966: Andrew Oldham, who was the original manager for the Rolling Stones, creates a musical side project called The Andrew Oldham Orchestra. The Andrew Oldham Orchestra releases an orchestrated version of The Last Time. This "orchestrated version" sounds absolutely nothing like the actual song "The Last Time", and I have no earthly idea why it was branded as a cover song. But don't take my word for it. Listen to it yourself: LINK

1997: The Verve negotiated a license to sample the Andrew Oldham Orchestra track in their song "Bittersweet Symphony". You read that correctly. The Verve had a license to sample what they sampled. You've heard the song, but here it is again: LINK

Bittersweet Symphony is released and becomes a huge hit. Allen Klein, who was the Stones' manager and the owner of their recordings via his company ABCKO, sues The Verve on the grounds that the song uses "too much" of the sample The Verve had A LICENSE TO USE. The Verve either (a) lacked the resources to challenge the claim in court, or (b) had the shittiest lawyer on the face of the planet. They settled with Klein.

Under the terms of the settlement, 100% of the royalties from the song -- which was a major international hit -- went to Klein. Additionally, songwriting credits were given to Keith Richards and Mick Jagger. Songwriting credits were not given to Andrew Oldham, which blows my mind.



Richard Ashcroft received $1,000 from the song Bittersweet Symphony.

quote:

“It must have devastated him, They f–king raped him. And then Keith put more salt in the wound by going, ‘Serves you right for playing with the big boys.’”
-Andrew Oldham



The villain in this story is certainly Allen Klein. And when he died, I'm certain there was a spot in hell already reserved for him. But Jagger and Richards weren't exactly angels in all of this either. Ashcroft contacted them personally when all of this was going down, and they basically gave him a "frick you". I'm not sure they could have done much anyway, as Klein was clearly the guy spearheading the operation, but Jagger and Richards knew it wasn't their song that was getting sampled. They knew a young musician was getting fricked right in the arse and wasn't even given the common courtesy of a reach-around. They weren't sweating it.


Has there ever been a bigger screw job in the history of music?


____________________________
*His momma called him Clay







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ShamelessPel
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
Metairie
Member since Apr 2013
3192 posts

re: Bittersweet Symphony: the best Rolling Stones' song since "Beast of Burden"


quote:

Has there ever been a bigger screw job in the history of music?


CCR






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Edearl Watson
Florida Fan
Shores of Caloosa
Member since May 2012
3645 posts

re: Bittersweet Symphony: the best Rolling Stones' song since "Beast of Burden"


quote:

Has there ever been a bigger screw job in the history of music?


Led Zeppelin, and all those that were screwed with the entire first album.






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TheFolker
Kentucky Fan
Member since Aug 2011
3259 posts

re: Bittersweet Symphony: the best Rolling Stones' song since "Beast of Burden"


They have had some good songs musically in the last 30 years but their lyrics are laughably bad anymore. Keith can shite out some great riffs on his worst day but lyrics take the kind of inspiration that 70 year old men rarely can muster.





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bobbyray21
Tennessee Fan
Member since Sep 2009
9490 posts

re: Bittersweet Symphony: the best Rolling Stones' song since "Beast of Burden"


quote:

CCR


I don't think I know this story.






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bobbyray21
Tennessee Fan
Member since Sep 2009
9490 posts

re: Bittersweet Symphony: the best Rolling Stones' song since "Beast of Burden"


quote:

Led Zeppelin, and all those that were screwed with the entire first album.


Who got screwed?






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TheFolker
Kentucky Fan
Member since Aug 2011
3259 posts

re: Bittersweet Symphony: the best Rolling Stones' song since "Beast of Burden"


Lots of blues men. CCR is probably the worst.





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bobbyray21
Tennessee Fan
Member since Sep 2009
9490 posts

re: Bittersweet Symphony: the best Rolling Stones' song since "Beast of Burden"


quote:

Lots of blues men.


But how? Just because they weren't given proper credit?


Because i'd take that any ole day of the week over what happened to Ashcroft. I'd put them in the same category as the Staples Singers from my original post. They should have received some credit and some royalties from the Stones' version of their song. But if I'm given two options:
(a) not receive money from an artist that ripped off a song I wrote that wasn't making me any money anyway, or
(b) Taken millions of dollars from my pocket, and put it in the pocket of some a-hole who didn't do a thing.

I'll go with a.






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pussywillows
New Orleans Saints Fan
Member since Dec 2009
4357 posts

re: Bittersweet Symphony: the best Rolling Stones' song since "Beast of Burden"


they weren't given proper credit at the time, but from what i've read, zeppelin made very substantial financial settlements with all of them...if that's not the case, i'm sure someone will mention it...i also think the exposure brought a lot of lesser known musicians to the public eye (at least to the attention of a lot of people who would have never known to seek them out), which was definitely a positive for many of them.





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Melvin
New Orleans Saints Fan
Covington
Member since Apr 2011
13323 posts
 Online 

re: Bittersweet Symphony: the best Rolling Stones' song since "Beast of Burden"


I've heard Beast of Burden so many times I really don't enjoy it anymore





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ZacAttack
Mississippi St. Fan
The Land Mass
Member since Oct 2012
4711 posts

re: Bittersweet Symphony: the best Rolling Stones' song since "Beast of Burden"


The remaining members of CCR sued John Fogerty for making new solo music that sounded too much like the original CCR. They basically told him he sounded too much like himself. I believe that's how the story goes.

Eta: I hate the Stones, and wish they would go away and none of their songs would ever be played on the radio again. If I hear Satisfaction one more time I may rip the radio out of my truck.



This post was edited on 8/20 at 6:35 pm


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TFTC
LSU Fan
New Orleans, LA
Member since May 2010
12177 posts

re: Bittersweet Symphony: the best Rolling Stones' song since "Beast of Burden"


quote:

Has there ever been a bigger screw job in the history of music?


Man, their have been so many artists fricked over by record companies, publishing companies... and they never received a red cent and didnt have a pot to piss in before or after their music careers...

The members of the Verve are probably doing OK..

All that said, I agree it was a pretty shitty thing to do By the stones group... I can understand maybe getting a piece, similar to Chuck berry and The Beach Boys for Surfin USA (Sweet Little Sixteen)






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bobbyray21
Tennessee Fan
Member since Sep 2009
9490 posts

re: Bittersweet Symphony: the best Rolling Stones' song since "Beast of Burden"


quote:

The remaining members of CCR sued John Fogerty for making new solo music that sounded too much like the original CCR. They basically told him he sounded too much like himself. I believe that's how the story goes.



Did they win? No fricking way they won.






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bobbyray21
Tennessee Fan
Member since Sep 2009
9490 posts

re: Bittersweet Symphony: the best Rolling Stones' song since "Beast of Burden"


quote:

The members of the Verve are probably doing OK..


Well, sure. Bittersweet Symphony wasn't the only great song they made. Urban Hymns sold ten million albums -- and deservedly so, as it is an absolutely fantastic album -- and I imagine that was enough to steer them clear of the local unemployment services office.

But that doesn't make it any less of a screw job. Bittersweet Symphony was an absolute cash cow for the slimy bag of shite Allen Klein. Not just the royalties -- which were substantial -- but advertising revenue, revenue from placement in movies, etc.

Basically, Ashcroft would have Oasis-type money if he hadn't gotten the Dick Sandwich on Bittersweet Symphony.






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TheFolker
Kentucky Fan
Member since Aug 2011
3259 posts

re: Bittersweet Symphony: the best Rolling Stones' song since "Beast of Burden"


I think the specific song was Old Man Down the Road which sounds a bit like to Run Through the Jungle in places.





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bobbyray21
Tennessee Fan
Member since Sep 2009
9490 posts

re: Bittersweet Symphony: the best Rolling Stones' song since "Beast of Burden"


quote:

Eta: I hate the Stones, and wish they would go away and none of their songs would ever be played on the radio again. If I hear Satisfaction one more time I may rip the radio out of my truck.


I could definitely go the rest of my life without hearing Satisfaction or Start Me Up, and that would be totally okay.

But I do like some of their other stuff. I can't even name the songs; I just know that whenever I've heard a Stones album, I always thought it sounded pretty good. And I LOVE the song Beast of Burden.


ETA: an old Stones album. As in, nothing within the past 35 years.




This post was edited on 8/20 at 7:36 pm


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Edearl Watson
Florida Fan
Shores of Caloosa
Member since May 2012
3645 posts

re: Bittersweet Symphony: the best Rolling Stones' song since "Beast of Burden"


quote:

Led Zeppelin, and all those that were screwed with the entire first album.



quote:

Who got screwed?


LINK

LINK



This post was edited on 8/20 at 9:27 pm


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Chitter Chatter
LSU Fan
In and Out of Consciousness
Member since Sep 2009
2488 posts

re: Bittersweet Symphony: the best Rolling Stones' song since "Beast of Burden"


I enjoy the Stones very much and they have definitely put out good music since Beast of Burden and the Some Girls album:

Worried About You (Tattoo You '81)
She Was Hot (Undercover '83)
Rock And A Hard Place (Steel Wheels '89)
Blinded By Rainbows (Voodoo Lounge '94)
Out Of Tears (Voodoo Lounge)
Saint Of Me (Bridges To Babylon '97)
Out Of Control (Bridges To Babylon)
Don't Stop (40 Licks '02)
It Won't Be Long (A Bigger Bang '05)
Back Of My Hand (A Bigger Bang)
Laugh I Nearly Died (A Bigger Bang)
Plundered My Soul, Following The River, and I'm Not Signifying from the '10 Exile reissue were very good.
The extra tracks on the Some Girls reissue were damn good too.






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TheRoarRestoredInBR
LSU Fan
Member since Dec 2004
21952 posts

re: Bittersweet Symphony: the best Rolling Stones' song since "Beast of Burden"


Sad story, a fan of all involved, also a big fan of Ashcroft's solo discs, though were but modest sellers.

Probably one of my favorite fifty tunes of the '00s.. Richard Ashcroft - A Song For The Lovers







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Elleshoe
Southeastern LA Fan
Founder of the Boxtard Nation
Member since Jun 2004
121663 posts

re: Bittersweet Symphony: the best Rolling Stones' song since "Beast of Burden"


The Stones are so overrated in the annuls of music history it isn't even funny.





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