Simmons continues ragging on Pelicans... - Page 2 - TigerDroppings.com

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rondo
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re: Simmons continues ragging on Pelicans...


Simmons is just mad his Celtics will be terrible for years to come.





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SuperSoakher
New Orleans Saints Fan
Member since Jun 2012
2020 posts

re: Simmons continues ragging on Pelicans...


Bookmarked for when the Pels hoist the trophy next year





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sbrian3915
LSU Fan
New Orleans
Member since Aug 2011
648 posts

re: Simmons continues ragging on Pelicans...


Oh, where to begin...

quote:

Look, if you haven't noticed, I'm effing old. I don't have time for a big rebuilding project. No thanks. I want to make the playoffs every year and that's that!


Um, if you haven't noticed, Bill, the Pelicans have sucked for 2 straight seasons. At some point when you rebuild you actually have to get better, or else you're the Wizards.

quote:

God, I just hated what the Horne— er, Pelicans did. Spending $44 million for four years on Tyreke Evans???????????9 Trading the no. 6 pick (Nerlens Noel) plus a top-three protected pick in the super-loaded 2014 draft for Jrue Holiday?


An all star guard and a quality starting caliber SG/SF, bith of whom are known commodities, over the next coming of Greg Odin and an undefined #1 draft choice that, given the history of this league, will probably be a bust? This is not th NFL. Unless you have a top 5 pick (Oh look Top 5 protected) a young veteran trumpps a draft pick every damn day of the week.

quote:

And who in their right mind would rather pay $44 million for Evans when Millsap (a better player, hands down — it's not close) was sitting there for 40 percent of the price?


Yeah, because Millsap and Evans totally play the same position, so they are completely interchangeable. The Peilcans were upgrading depth in the backcourt, not spending money to spend money. This could be the dumbest thing I've ever heard Simmons say, and I really like him.

quote:

Why give away two killer assets for Holiday over just keeping Greivis Vasquez (cheap contract) and signing a good backup like Nate Robinson


We did the Grevious Vasquez thing. We won 20 games. Can anyone in their right mind say they would rather have Vasquez ofer Jrue? If you have Nate Robinson and Grevious...Nate starts betwee that duo. Simmons way overrates Grevious because of his el cheapo contract.

quote:

(Would you rather have Jennings, Noel and your 2014 pick … or Holiday? Come on.) Or why not save those assets to make a play for a better player down the road?


Um, Holliday and I don't have to think about it all that hard. Jennings is not a charachter fit with this team (they have enough issues getting Gordon to behave..adding a high charachter guy like Jrue is great to help AD learn to lead thsi team). And, what better player down the road? All of this BS about how deep the 2014 draft will be is precicely that. Again, when it comes to rookies and drafts, we are way too NFL oriented when the NBA draft is a complete crapshoot.

quote:

Or why not just draft Noel, "struggle" for one more year, cherry-pick a stud from this monster 2014 draft, then make your move in 12 months?


Again, we have been purposefully sucking for 2 consecutaive seasons. We are not the Wizards. Plus, if everyone else goes on a tank fest for this supposed great 2014 draft class, then there will be wins to be had.

quote:

To the great Arn Tellem, who orchestrated that ludicrous Tyreke contract AND got two more of his clients (Vasquez and Robin Lopez) traded to more favorable situations. How? He reps Anthony Davis, that's how. That's been an underrated subplot lately: Teams buttering up power agents by overpaying their fringe clients as down payments for future extensions with the ones they really want. Just call them "down-payment contracts."


Well this sounds all nice and good, except one minor flaw in the logic. When AD comes up for his second contract, he will be a max guy. So it matter now what kind of maneuvering the agent did or didn't do, AD will make max money.

You have to understand how the NBA should work in Simmons' world. In his eyes, the Celtics and Lakers and Heat and Knicks and Bulls should do whatever they can to be great. Everyone else should sign only cheap contracts amd totally suck and try to get as many ping pong balls they can, because if they try to compete, then all they will amount to is being the Milwaukee Bucks.

In Simmons' world, its better to be the Bobcats or Wizards than the Bucks. The very worst thing you can be is the Bucks...he has said that numerous times. He doesn't think that any small or medium market team can ever be better than the Bucks without totally lucking out in the lottery.







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tehchampion140
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
Bow to the Brow
Member since Sep 2010
17248 posts

re: Simmons continues ragging on Pelicans...


quote:

And who in their right mind would rather pay $44 million for Evans when Millsap (a better player, hands down — it's not close) was sitting there for 40 percent of the price?

Yes, we should have definitely gone after Millsap, a PF. It's not like 2 of our best players play that position already.
quote:

Why give away two killer assets for Holiday over just keeping Greivis Vasquez (cheap contract) and signing a good backup like Nate Robinson?

Because Holiday is an All Star with elite defense while Vasquez is mediocre and couldn't stay in front of me?
quote:

? Or why not just try to sign Brandon Jennings and offer him slightly less than what Holiday is making? (Would you rather have Jennings, Noel and your 2014 pick … or Holiday? Come on.)

Well, considering Jennings might be the most inefficient point guard in the league and is not the type of player that the winning teams give significant minutes, Noel may never be a decent player AND has a smaller frame than me AND won't play until December due to a catastrophic knee injury, and the best players supposedly available with that 2014 pick just graduated high school, I feel pretty good about having Holiday.
quote:

Or why not just draft Noel, "struggle" for one more year, cherry-pick a stud from this monster 2014 draft, then make your move in 12 months?

The Bobcats, Kings, Wizards, and Raptors have shown that this is a flawless franchise model, right?






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Gtothemoney
UNO Fan
Da North Shore
Member since Sep 2012
7047 posts

re: Simmons continues ragging on Pelicans...


quote:

sbrian3915


Well put.






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corndeaux
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
Member since Sep 2009
5364 posts

re: Simmons continues ragging on Pelicans...


quote:

Brandon Jennings is too inefficient


Just playing devil's advocate here, but Jennings and Holiday had basically the same PER last season (16.1 and 16.7) and Jennings has a higher career PER (16.1 to 15.1). Obviously that isn't a be all, end all stat and it doesn't measure Holiday's defensive impact. Jennings also has a higher WS/48 than Holiday over their careers as well (.092 to .071)

quote:

Holiday is actually a proven asset


Jennings is a proven asset. We know what he can do- we may not like it , but he's 17 and 6 every night over his career.

Questions about Noel and Davis together are legit- mostly about Noel getting big enough to bang on the block. But we also don't know how Demps would have shaped the roster around a Jennings/Gordon/Davis/Anderson/Noel core.

Whatever roster he would have pulled together would be worse than what they have this season, but one can argue that it has better long term potential. Obviously that guarantees nothing. But let's be fair, they are banking on the potential of the games of Holiday, Gordon, and Evans fitting cohesively together.






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corndeaux
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
Member since Sep 2009
5364 posts

re: Simmons continues ragging on Pelicans...


quote:

on draft night wasn't Simmons applauding the trade for jrue?


That was when they thought Philly threw in a 2014 pick with Holiday. There was confusion for a while about the actual deal. ESPN was especially clueless. Big shock there

ETA: Most of the hate for that deal centers on giving up the 2014 pick. Many feel like the Pels are still a high lottery team. Even if they miss the playoffs, the roster should be good enough to have the team picking 10 or higher. Not giving up much



This post was edited on 7/31 at 10:16 am


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CP3LSU25
LSU Fan
Lafayette
Member since Feb 2009
35373 posts

re: Simmons continues ragging on Pelicans...


quote:

ay $44 million for Evans when Millsap (a better player, hands down — it's not close) was sitting there for 40 percent of the price?


I can't argue with this until we see what evans does. I always liked millsap. With that said I am more than happy about our team. More than happy






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Fun Bunch
New Orleans Saints Fan
New Orleans
Member since May 2008
24884 posts
 Online 

re: Simmons continues ragging on Pelicans...


quote:

He doesn't think that any small or medium market team can ever be better than the Bucks without totally lucking out in the lottery.




Which we already did, so we should be good to, ya know, build something.






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tgr4ever
LSU Fan
Atlanta
Member since Jul 2011
10678 posts

re: Simmons continues ragging on Pelicans...


quote:

Just playing devil's advocate here, but Jennings and Holiday had basically the same PER last season (16.1 and 16.7) and Jennings has a higher career PER (16.1 to 15.1). Obviously that isn't a be all, end all stat and it doesn't measure Holiday's defensive impact. Jennings also has a higher WS/48 than Holiday over their careers as well (.092 to .071)
Actually, Holiday's defensive impact is comparable to Steph Curry. (Holiday had 2.7 defensive win shares per 48, Curry had 2.8 defensive win shares)






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quail man
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
New York, NY
Member since May 2010
25359 posts

re: Simmons continues ragging on Pelicans...


BS;DR





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mm2316
New Orleans Saints Fan
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
Member since Aug 2010
4718 posts

re: Simmons continues ragging on Pelicans...


quote:

sbrian3915
quote:

tehchapion140

You guys took the words right out of my mouth. Simmons has a rep for being a smart basketball guy, and I've never been one to bash him, but he totally missed the mark on this one.

Give me a 23 year old All Star PG, signed for the next 4 years on a pretty good deal over Jennings , a twice-torn ACL, udnerweight, no offensive game Noel, and a draft pick, all day every day.

I can't believe he suggests a GV/Nate Robinson combo at PG. That would be TERRIBLE, and that's assuming he would even sign here.

I'm not sure if it was Simmons or another Grantland writer that was killing us for the Holiday deal, but their response was we should have done Jennings or Teague instead. My two problems with that is 1.) These players aren't interchangeable just because they play the same position. Holiday is head and shoulder above those two. 2.) Like I said about Nate, these players would have to agree to sign here. In Teague's case, he was a RFA that Atlanta matched, so he wasn't even an option. As far as Jennings, who know if he would even want to play here, and even if he does, he hasn't half the player Jrue is.

Like the guys above me said, sure we could have played the lottery game, but what teams, other than the Thunder, has that actually worked out for lately?

Just all around stupidity.






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corndeaux
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
Member since Sep 2009
5364 posts

re: Simmons continues ragging on Pelicans...


quote:

Actually, Holiday's defensive impact is comparable to Steph Curry. (Holiday had 2.7 defensive win shares per 48, Curry had 2.8 defensive win shares)


That's fascinating. I would never put Curry on the same level as Holiday defensively. Did I just not pay enough attention to Curry's defense or is it that metrics still have a long way to go to measure individual defensive impact?






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NOSHAU
Member since Feb 2012
1193 posts

re: Simmons continues ragging on Pelicans...


quote:

$44 million for Evans when Millsap (a better player, hands down — it's not close) was sitting there for 40 percent of the price?
Yeah, because Millsap look great at the 1, 2 or 3 spots. Or, should we bench Davis and Anderson for him? The guy lives in a vacuum.






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tgr4ever
LSU Fan
Atlanta
Member since Jul 2011
10678 posts

re: Simmons continues ragging on Pelicans...


quote:

Give me a 23 year old All Star PG
Let's be real here. Holiday was an all-star because of the injuries to Rose and Rondo. He'll likely never be an all-star in the West.






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quail man
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
New York, NY
Member since May 2010
25359 posts

re: Simmons continues ragging on Pelicans...


quote:

Just all around stupidity.



he just basically assumes

1) these players fit the mold that Dell wants

2) these players want to come to new orleans

3) these players would have been available to us

it's way too many assumptions on his part. but he's just a mega fan who thinks his way is the best way. it's pretty absurd. give me the team we have now over the team he suggested any day of the week. the team he suggested gets us in Rockets territory...perennial first round exits.

also, if he owned a team and was a few years away from death, he'd go all out too to try to win now. especially with a franchise that is rebranding.






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danman6336
Duke Fan
Member since Jan 2005
13921 posts

re: Simmons continues ragging on Pelicans...


He made some good points, and some bad points

Overall his lack of knowledge about smaller market teams and the players on them is pretty glaring in a lot of the articles he writes

He may know the history of the game and a lot about the big market media darlings, but he knows very little about teams like the Pelicans






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corndeaux
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
Member since Sep 2009
5364 posts

re: Simmons continues ragging on Pelicans...


quote:

it's way too many assumptions on his part. but he's just a mega fan who thinks his way is the best way


The main reason the national media has panned the moves is because it goes against conventional wisdom for non glamor market teams. The thinking is that you have to rebuild over the course of years via the draft. Anything that deviates from that plan will be judged poorly simply because it's different.

What Demps has done may not work, but it is a smart alternative to what every small market team is trying to do.

This might be germans, but it is a fair assessment of what the team has done and what they are trying to accomplish with this roster. Via Tjarks (did draft work at SBNation) on RealGM

LINK






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quail man
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
New York, NY
Member since May 2010
25359 posts

re: Simmons continues ragging on Pelicans...


quote:

He may know the history of the game and a lot about the big market media darlings, but he knows very little about teams like the Pelicans



which is pretty much why i read nothing he writes about the current NBA teams. he knows the history like nobody else. i hear his book of basketball is a great read. i hope to get to it some day. but he's become the new rick reilly to me. he's not as good as he used to be.






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quail man
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
New York, NY
Member since May 2010
25359 posts

re: Simmons continues ragging on Pelicans...


quote:

This might be germans, but it is a fair assessment of what the team has done and what they are trying to accomplish with this roster. Via Tjarks (did draft work at SBNation) on RealGM

LINK


good read. hopefully one day in about 10 years we look at Demps as an innovator and not a failure.






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