Industries that are exempt from Antitrust Laws - Page 4 - TigerDroppings.com

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Patrick O Rly
New Orleans Saints Fan
y u do dis?
Member since Aug 2011
34813 posts

re: Industries that are exempt from Antitrust Laws


quote:

What overwhelming force or violence did Microsoft use on you when you didn't want to use their software?


To enforce their non existence monopoly? None.






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WikiTiger
LSU Fan
Member since Sep 2007
40721 posts

re: Industries that are exempt from Antitrust Laws


quote:

An economic advantage held by one or more persons or companies deriving from the exclusive power to carry on a particular business or trade or to manufacture and sell a particular item, thereby suppressing competition and allowing such persons or companies to raise the price of a product or service substantially above the price that would be established by a free market


Finally we get an accurate definition in here.







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WikiTiger
LSU Fan
Member since Sep 2007
40721 posts

re: Industries that are exempt from Antitrust Laws


quote:

To enforce their non existence monopoly? None.


I don't think they realize that we're arguing that Microsoft doesn't have a monopoly.






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TigerGman
LSU Fan
Center of the Universe
Member since Sep 2006
2555 posts

re: Industries that are exempt from Antitrust Laws


quote:

You're acting like Microsoft was the only choice.


You simply don't get the concept that simple existence of "some competition" doesn't mean it's a not a monopoly capable of anti-competitive effects which are detrimental to consumers.

For example you think obscure and highly technologically knowledge required to installing Linux distros was a competitive alternative to Windows.

Since you can't seem to grasp that elementary concept, (which by the way is the basis for decades of anti trust law and decisions) there's really no point in continuing the discussion.






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Patrick O Rly
New Orleans Saints Fan
y u do dis?
Member since Aug 2011
34813 posts

re: Industries that are exempt from Antitrust Laws


Me neither.







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Placebeaux
LSU Fan
One man's LOL is another man's WTF
Member since Jun 2008
22942 posts

re: Industries that are exempt from Antitrust Laws


I cant wait to see how this one turns out


Chinese Sue Fed For Monopoly USD Devaluation



quote:

In what could to grow into a class action in US courts, a Chinese woman is suing the Federal Reserve after discovering that the real value of the USD250 she put in an account in 2006 had shrunk by 30%. She claims it was the result of the Fed issuing too much money, and as The South China Morning Post reports, her son Li Zhen, the lawyer, called the lawsuit "litigation for the public good". Alleging "abuse of monopoly in issuing currency," the People's Court of Kunming has yet to rule on the litigants' demand that the Fed cease-and-desist from its quantitative easing policy. While this may seem frivolous, there are some interesting points being made that bear watching, as Li notes, since "the Fed is private institution which enjoys monopoly over the issuing of currency, US Dollar holders can sue it for printing too much money."






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Patrick O Rly
New Orleans Saints Fan
y u do dis?
Member since Aug 2011
34813 posts

re: Industries that are exempt from Antitrust Laws


Murray Rothbard: The origins of progressive regulation







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WikiTiger
LSU Fan
Member since Sep 2007
40721 posts

re: Industries that are exempt from Antitrust Laws


quote:

You simply don't get the concept that simple existence of "some competition" doesn't mean it's a not a monopoly capable of anti-competitive effects which are detrimental to consumers.

For example you think obscure and highly technologically knowledge required to installing Linux distros was a competitive alternative to Windows.

Since you can't seem to grasp that elementary concept, (which by the way is the basis for decades of anti trust law and decisions) there's really no point in continuing the discussion.



sigh.

your whole argument is that Microsoft created a product that people willingly purchased and used en masse and that because of that they got some sort of power to control the market.

but that's not true. You know what Microsoft could control? MICROSOFT SOFTWARE.

They could not stop others from creating operating systems and browsers and other software products.

But what you don't like is that PEOPLE voluntarily purchased Microsoft's products in such large numbers that they supposedly gained some sort of control over the industry. I'm sorry but that's just not true.

They only controlled Microsoft. People were free to choose other offerings. For some reason, you seem to think that was not enough. I don't quite understand why.



This post was edited on 7/19 at 4:25 pm


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LSURussian
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Feb 2005
76228 posts

re: Industries that are exempt from Antitrust Laws


quote:

To enforce their non existence monopoly? None.
So when they were found to have a monopoly by a court and MSFT agreed to unbundle their browswer and allow other browsers to be placed on PCs at the point of sale they weren't really a monopoly?

Not with having over 90% of the market share of PC operating systems in use around the world even today? LINK

And not even with MS Word still controlling over 90% of the word processor market share? LINK

Oh, okay. Good to know they weren't and aren't a monopoly. Thanks.






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Patrick O Rly
New Orleans Saints Fan
y u do dis?
Member since Aug 2011
34813 posts

re: Industries that are exempt from Antitrust Laws


quote:

Oh, okay. Good to know they weren't and aren't a monopoly. Thanks.


You're welcome.






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LSURussian
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Feb 2005
76228 posts

re: Industries that are exempt from Antitrust Laws


quote:

I don't think they realize that we're arguing that Microsoft doesn't have a monopoly.



What percent of the market would constitute "control and dominance"?

What percent of the market would MSFT have if legal action had not been brought against it forcing it to allow competitors' software to be installed on Windows based PC's at the point of sale, which MSFT, prior to the legal action, did not allow?







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Patrick O Rly
New Orleans Saints Fan
y u do dis?
Member since Aug 2011
34813 posts

re: Industries that are exempt from Antitrust Laws


quote:

What percent of the market would constitute "control and dominance"?


Do they have a word for that? It's not monopoly.






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WikiTiger
LSU Fan
Member since Sep 2007
40721 posts

re: Industries that are exempt from Antitrust Laws


quote:

Do they have a word for that? It's not monopoly.


"Industry leader"?



Basically, what we've seen is an evolution of the word "monopoly" from its original meaning of "100% market share" to "arbitrary market share levels that the collective deems scary"

Such is life when it comes to the state, though.



This post was edited on 7/19 at 4:37 pm


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Placebeaux
LSU Fan
One man's LOL is another man's WTF
Member since Jun 2008
22942 posts

re: Industries that are exempt from Antitrust Laws


quote:

The phenomenal popularity of the personal computer (PC) in the 1980s and 1990s catapulted Microsoft Corporation past manufacturing corporations as a preeminent business organization in the United States and the world. With the explosion of interest in the Internet in the mid-1990s, Microsoft moved aggressively to market its Internet Explorer (IE) web browser and to crush its competitor, Netscape. Having already secured a monopoly with its Windows Operating System, Microsoft seemed poised to dominate Internet software. However, in 1998, 19 state attorneys general joined the U.S. Justice Department in filing an antitrust lawsuit against Microsoft. The suit alleged that the software company forced computer manufacturers (known as original equipment manufacturers or OEMs) to license and distribute Microsoft's IE in exchange for the right to pre-install Microsoft's Windows 95 operating system on new PCs. Microsoft contended that IE was an integral part of Windows 95 and that it could not be separated without causing the operating system as a whole to malfunction. The plaintiffs argued that Microsoft was engaged in an illegal Tying Arrangement, by conditioning the purchase of a popular product (Windows 95) on the purchase of an additional, unrelated product


quote:

The case came to trial in October 1998 before U.S. District Court Judge Thomas Pen-field Jackson, sitting without a jury. Jackson ruled for the plaintiffs in November 1999, finding that the facts fully justified the conclusion that Microsoft had sought monopoly power through illegal means. He appointed Chief Judge richard a. posner of the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Seventh Circuit to mediate the case, in hopes of bringing the bitter conflict to a quick conclusion. However, Posner could not broker a settlement, and Jackson issued his final order in April 2000. He ordered that Microsoft be split into two companies and that the companies desist from monopolistic conduct. A federal appeals court overturned this decision in June 2001. Although the panel agreed that Microsoft had engaged in monopolistic practices, it found that Judge Jackson had committed misconduct by making derogatory comments about Microsoft. The case was sent back to another district court judge, who encouraged new settlement talks. In August 2002, the U.S. Department of Justice and the states agreed to a settlement in which Microsoft did not have to split apart. Instead, Microsoft agreed to allow OEMs and consumers to add and remove access to certain Windows features and to set defaults for competing software. Microsoft also made available to software developers a host of software interfaces and tools at no charge, to allow the developers to write Windows applications






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GoBigOrange86
Tennessee Fan
Boulder, CO
Member since Jun 2008
12908 posts

re: Industries that are exempt from Antitrust Laws


As IE is concerned, this might come as a shock to people who use the internet a whole lot (like yours truly), but for a lot of people who want to check their e-mail and maybe the news they don't need to get friggin' Chrome.

The fact that Microsoft bundled IE for free isn't something to be condemned, it was something that was to the considerable benefit of their consumers.






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LSURussian
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Feb 2005
76228 posts

re: Industries that are exempt from Antitrust Laws


quote:

Do they have a word for that?
What other company in the U.S. has 90% market share in its industry?

So, by your definition that it's not a monopoly, there are no monopolies in the U.S.

You and wiki both look foolish.

/thread






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Patrick O Rly
New Orleans Saints Fan
y u do dis?
Member since Aug 2011
34813 posts

re: Industries that are exempt from Antitrust Laws


Government is a monopoly. Medical insurance companies operate in state monopoly markets. There are companies that receive special privileges from the government. Government contracts are a form of a monopoly.

Having a good business model and being successful isn't a monopoly.






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TigerintheNO
LSU Fan
New Orleans
Member since Jan 2004
21675 posts

re: Industries that are exempt from Antitrust Laws


quote:

I thought MLB was actually exempt and NFL just hasn't been tested.



Boggs was the majority whip in the House; Long was the majority whip in the Senate. They gave the NFL anti-trust exemption to merge with the AFL, in return they agreed to give New Orleans a team. The NFL was sued on anti-trust violations by the USFL but was only awarded $3.

quote:

According to MacCambridge, as Rozelle and Boggs walked to the Capitol Rotunda, Rozelle said he did not know how to thank Boggs.

“What do you mean you don’t know how to thank me?” Boggs said. “New Orleans gets an immediate franchise in the N.F.L.”

Rozelle waffled ever so little, saying he would do everything he could.

“Well, we can always call off the vote while you — ” Boggs said.

“It’s a deal, Congressman,” Rozelle said. “You’ll get your franchise.”


NYTimes






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LSURussian
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Feb 2005
76228 posts

re: Industries that are exempt from Antitrust Laws


quote:

Government is a monopoly. Medical insurance companies operate in state monopoly markets.

Okay, as usual, now you're just being silly in an attempt to save face.

Government is not a company. Plus, there are many levels of government in the US. Not even the federal government has 90% of the governmental "market share." And I can use any of a number of medical insurance options.

You can only agree that by your definition, there are no corporate monopolies in the U.S. so this thread is moot. Yay!






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I B Freeman
Member since Oct 2009
4290 posts

re: Industries that are exempt from Antitrust Laws


MSFT never had a monopoly and it has been proven by the rise of Google and Apple.

Yes they were dominant for a short while in browsers, operating systems and office suite but never as Clinton claimed a monopoly.

Name me any monopoly other than a small geographical one that exists today and explain to me if it is government protected or not.

I will give you two industries that while they are not monopolies they do enjoy exemption from anti trust laws---NFL and MLB. Maybe the NBA.

Utilities have government endorsed monopolies in certain geographies.






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