Industries that are exempt from Antitrust Laws - Page 3 - TigerDroppings.com

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WikiTiger
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re: Industries that are exempt from Antitrust Laws


quote:

How many years did consumers suffer with IE cause Microsoft was able to crush the competition by giving it away for free?


0

There were alternatives available.

quote:

It took years before alternatives could find way to compete.


Not true.

quote:

A similar case can be made for the way Microsoft crushed WordPerfect.


WordPerfect is still around and used frequently.






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Patrick O Rly
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re: Industries that are exempt from Antitrust Laws


quote:

How many years did consumers suffer with IE cause Microsoft was able to crush the competition by giving it away for free?


Oh, how dare they? You're really complaining about this?

quote:

It took years before alternatives could find way to compete.


And now IE is a joke.






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LSURussian
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re: Industries that are exempt from Antitrust Laws


quote:

But even before the government forced Microsoft to change things, other browsers were available and common.

BUT THEY WEREN'T USED BY ANY SIGNIFICANT % OF PC USERS! (Yes, I'm shouting.)

Only after MSFT was forced to unbundle (by the government) did those competitors have a chance to gain market share.

Why must you lie and mislead so much?






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WikiTiger
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re: Industries that are exempt from Antitrust Laws


timeline showing when web browsers were available





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LSURussian
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re: Industries that are exempt from Antitrust Laws


quote:

How many years did consumers suffer with IE cause Microsoft was able to crush the competition by giving it away for free?



0






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TrueTiger
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re: Industries that are exempt from Antitrust Laws


quote:

you forgot the biggest: government


You think monopoly or monopsony fits better? Or is it a bit of both?

A monopoly is a single supplier but the government doesn't make anything,
it only pays for stuff with money it takes by threatening people will jail or fines.

A single payor healthcare system would most definitely be a monopsony.






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TigerGman
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re: Industries that are exempt from Antitrust Laws


quote:

Oh, how dare they? You're really complaining about this?

Yeah. Great example of abuse of monopoly to the detriment of consumers. They were defacto stuck with that craptastic IE browser. And as Wiki fails to understand the concept that even if there exists some obscure alternate does not obviate the existence of a monopoly and its anti competitive power.






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WikiTiger
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re: Industries that are exempt from Antitrust Laws


quote:

And as Wiki fails to understand the concept that even if there exists some obscure alternate does not obviate the existence of a monopoly and its anti competitive power.


Maybe this is a philosophical difference we have, but I'm hardly sympathetic to it.

If a person is unhappy with the product then they should seek alternatives. If there were no alternatives available, then maybe your argument would hold water. But the fact that people didn't seek the alternatives en masse until the early 2000's tells me that they were somewhat satisfied with IE.

I just don't get the big deal. IE was free with Microsoft Windows. It worked. It did its job.

If you didn't like it, you could install another browser. Mosaic-based browsers have always been very good and have been available since even before IE was created.

Or, you could have also chosen to purchase a Mac and use the software that Apple provided.

Choice was available, and it was EASY and at the same price point (Mosaic based browsers were free).

So what exactly are you whining about? That Microsoft put out a product that people were satisfied enough with that they didn't seek alternatives?






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Patrick O Rly
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re: Industries that are exempt from Antitrust Laws


quote:

Great example of abuse of monopoly to the detriment of consumers


I'm sorry, I didn't realize people were forced to buy their operating software. Funny, before they were force to debundle, microsoft spent $0 on lobbying. They received the message loud and clear.

You're seriously complaining about a company GIVING away their product? Really? Really?



This post was edited on 7/19 at 3:58 pm


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Patrick O Rly
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re: Industries that are exempt from Antitrust Laws


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So what exactly are you whining about? That Microsoft put out a product that people were satisfied enough with that they didn't seek alternatives?


It was unfair. Hmph.






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TigerGman
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re: Industries that are exempt from Antitrust Laws


quote:

So what exactly are you whining about? That Microsoft put out a product that people were satisfied enough with that they didn't seek alternatives?



Microsoft single handidly destroyed the competition and there was no viable consumer choice for years because of it. Less competition meant less innovation. We have no idea how much better alternative browsers could have been back then because there were none that could effectively compete at the time.

We have different business models now where they're all free so it's harder to see that now. But going back and living through those years stuck with IE you have to wonder how much better the internet experience could have been.

Similarly the dominant word processor at the time WordPerfect got crushed because of the reality that Microsoft designed products would run better on Microsoft OS and made it hard for the competition to be as compatible, plus the perception that it would. Is WordPerfect still around? I suppose. Does anybody use it? I don't know a single person that does.
Just like I don't know anybody that actually uses Linux but you....






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Placebeaux
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re: Industries that are exempt from Antitrust Laws


quote:

banking and insurance industries


quote:

I'm pretty sure both of those industries are NOT exempt from anti-trust laws


LINK

quote:

Special-interest industries, such as agricultural and fishery marketing associations, banking and insurance industries, and export trade associations, are also immune from antitrust laws. Major league Baseball has been exempted from antitrust laws as well.






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BigJim
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re: Industries that are exempt from Antitrust Laws


quote:

NFL


Wait, is that true? I thought MLB was actually exempt and NFL just hasn't been tested.






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WikiTiger
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Member since Sep 2007
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re: Industries that are exempt from Antitrust Laws


quote:

But going back and living through those years stuck with IE you have to wonder how much better the internet experience could have been.


YOU WEREN'T STUCK WITH IT!

Even back then, long before I moved to Linux, I still ran a Mosaic based browser. In fact, I don't think I have ever in my life used IE as my primary browser.

quote:

Does anybody use it? I don't know a single person that does.
Just like I don't know anybody that actually uses Linux but you....


I guess we can all just take this anecdotal evidence to the bank, eh?

FWIW, WordPerfect is very popular in the legal community.


quote:

Microsoft designed products would run better on Microsoft OS


GASP! THE HORROR!

So then don't use a MS OS. I still don't get it. You're acting like Microsoft was the only choice. You do know Macs were around back then, and they had the same reputation for user friendliness.






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WikiTiger
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re: Industries that are exempt from Antitrust Laws


quote:

Microsoft single handidly destroyed the competition and there was no viable consumer choice for years because of it.


And that is just plain not true.

quote:

Less competition meant less innovation.


I already linked to a graphic showing other browsers and their development timeframe.

Do you use Firefox? Know anyone that does? Well, it's basically Netscape. Did you know that?






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Patrick O Rly
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re: Industries that are exempt from Antitrust Laws


Except you were never stuck with IE. It was simply available to you for free. There were other options available.

quote:

WordPerfect still around? I suppose. Does anybody use it?


I use google drive. I did so because I didn't want to pay all that money for microsoft office on the discount computer I bought. Should we punish google for unfairly offering those services for free?






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LSURussian
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re: Industries that are exempt from Antitrust Laws


quote:

A similar case can be made for the way Microsoft crushed WordPerfect.

WordPerfect is still around and used frequently.
Now I fully understand why you asked for someone to define 'monopoly.' It's because YOU don't know what the definition is.

Just because there are competitors available, it does NOT mean there is no monopoly. Your Greenspan link explains that. It's "control" and "dominance" that makes a monopoly a monopoly.

quote:

On November 21, Bill Gates testified in a lawsuit charging Microsoft of monopolistic behavior against WordPerfect. Microsoft is accused of altering Windows 95 to make it more difficult for WordPerfect to produce a product that functioned well under the operating system.

The WordPerfect market share actually had been declining every year since 1990. Between 1993 and 1994, Word increased in market share from 45 to 62%, and from 62% to over 78% between 1994 and 1995.




LINK






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LSURussian
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re: Industries that are exempt from Antitrust Laws


quote:

I didn't want to pay all that money for microsoft office
What overwhelming force or violence did Microsoft use on you when you didn't want to use their software?






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WikiTiger
LSU Fan
Member since Sep 2007
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re: Industries that are exempt from Antitrust Laws


quote:

Should we punish google for unfairly offering those services for free?


France did.

France convicts Google Maps for unfair competition






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Placebeaux
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re: Industries that are exempt from Antitrust Laws


quote:

An economic advantage held by one or more persons or companies deriving from the exclusive power to carry on a particular business or trade or to manufacture and sell a particular item, thereby suppressing competition and allowing such persons or companies to raise the price of a product or service substantially above the price that would be established by a free market






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