Sherriff Joe Arpaio punished for effective policing... - Page 7 - TigerDroppings.com

Posted byMessage
Powerman
LSU Fan
Corpus Christi, TX
Member since Jan 2004
120642 posts

re: Sherriff Joe Arpaio punished for effective policing...


quote:



So the fix is open borders with zero security? You think it will be cheaper when every doosh and his burkha wearing old lady can roll in drain money via service then roll out whenever they want? GFY on the idiot call little Rexy.


Yeah...I can see some poor people moving from the Middle East and leaving everything they have just so they can temporarily mooch off of the United States government and live at the poverty level.

Makes perfect sense.






Back to top
CerealKilla
SMU Fan
Das Boot
Member since Jan 2011
6098 posts

re: Sherriff Joe Arpaio punished for effective policing...


So holding a guy for a couple of days without reasonable suspicion of committing any crime is reasonable?





Back to top
Powerman
LSU Fan
Corpus Christi, TX
Member since Jan 2004
120642 posts

re: Sherriff Joe Arpaio punished for effective policing...


To be fair I don't think he said it was reasonable, just legal.





Back to top
SlowFlowPro
Stanford Fan
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
296502 posts
 Online 

re: Sherriff Joe Arpaio punished for effective policing...


quote:

Do you believe it is reasonable for a suspect to wait 40 minutes while the police try to get a drug dog to the scene, then when the dog arrives on scene, it never alerts?

the dogs almost always alert, if the cops want to detain you

did you read the opinion? this isn't a 4A issue as you described

quote:

To the extent that there was a legitimate, pretextual traffic basis for the original
stop that does not involve race, it does not matter to Fourth Amendment analysis that the
officer’s underlying decision to make the stop may have subjectively been based on
considerations of race. See Whren, 517 U.S. at 813. Further, to the extent that other
factors in combination, and excluding race as a consideration, were sufficient to justify
reasonable suspicion for the stops, there is no Fourth Amendment violation. See United
States v. Manzo-Jurado, 457 F.3d 928, 934?36 (9th Cir. 2006). As discussed below,
however, such motivations do make a difference to the equal protection analysis


it doesn't seem to be a 4A issue

this is an EP issue, and the EP clause has been warped by judicial activism which the Tea Party rejects

again, there is no "gotcha" for small government/libertarian/tea party people

the other backbone involved preemption stuff that is ridiculous in reality, especially with the feds willingly ignoring their own laws. plus there are other state laws that don't deal with immigration that were used as a basis to investigate (noted in the opinion typically as the state human trafficking laws)







Back to top
Jbird
Iowa Fan
In Odramaville with EthanL
Member since Oct 2012
16661 posts
 Online 

re: Sherriff Joe Arpaio punished for effective policing...


quote:

Makes perfect sense.


The point being that anyone and everyone would have the free and ample potential to exploit said system, so yeah it does make perfect sense.






Back to top
  Replies (0)
Five0
USA Fan
Member since Dec 2009
5322 posts

re: Sherriff Joe Arpaio punished for effective policing...


I said to determine identity. And yes it is reasonable. If you are stopped due to a PC stop it is not unreasonable to identify the driver and those in the vehicle. These issues have been adjudicated.





Back to top
  Replies (0)
SlowFlowPro
Stanford Fan
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
296502 posts
 Online 

re: Sherriff Joe Arpaio punished for effective policing...


quote:

To be fair I don't think he said it was reasonable, just legal.

well "reasonable" is the constitutional language and that kind of detention is "reasonable" in other contexts, so it's not really a persuasive argument in this particular context

i'm not even stating if i agree or disagree with the ruling. i'm just commenting on his ignorant attempt at a "gotcha"






Back to top
  Replies (0)
udtiger
LSU Fan
Louisiana
Member since Nov 2006
25075 posts

re: Sherriff Joe Arpaio punished for effective policing...


Activist judge gonna activate.

Will go to Supremes.






Back to top
Five0
USA Fan
Member since Dec 2009
5322 posts

re: Sherriff Joe Arpaio punished for effective policing...


Some legal Cliff's Notes:

Because passengers present a risk to officer safety equal to the risk presented by the driver, an officer may ask for identification from passengers and run background checks on them as well. - United States v. Rice, 483 F.3d 1079 (10th Cir. 2007)

Police can request passengers in motor vehicles to provide identifying information, if the vehicle has been lawfully stopped. - State v. Griffith, 236 Wis. 2d 48, 2000 WI 72 (2000)






Back to top
cwill
New Orleans Saints Fan
Member since Jan 2005
24716 posts

re: Sherriff Joe Arpaio punished for effective policing...


quote:

Illegal Aliens actually make a net positive contribution to the treasury

Which is more than you can say of the poor that live here legally

Additionally we benefit from their labor anyway. I get that we should want people to come here through the proper immigration channels but I just don't think illegal immigrants are the big boogeyman that everyone points them out to be.

It's just people who worship the law and think that it must be enforced at all times.


Further, they're not taking because they are unable to any means tested welfare progs....and as you stated they are a net benefit to he economy.

And I see that this thread continued with many still defending the little thug from AZ...and his thuggery has gone well beyond the suspect immigration stops into intimidation of political opponents.






Back to top
Five0
USA Fan
Member since Dec 2009
5322 posts

re: Sherriff Joe Arpaio punished for effective policing...


quote:

his thuggery has gone well beyond the suspect immigration stops into intimidation of political opponents.


Such as?






Back to top
  Replies (0)
SlowFlowPro
Stanford Fan
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
296502 posts
 Online 

re: Sherriff Joe Arpaio punished for effective policing...


quote:

Further, they're not taking because they are unable to any means tested welfare progs.

the biggest issue is ER treatment and the welfare their children receive, but yes, they, for the most part, don't get the benies






Back to top
  Replies (0)
udtiger
LSU Fan
Louisiana
Member since Nov 2006
25075 posts

re: Sherriff Joe Arpaio punished for effective policing...


They get public education (Plyler v. Doe).

Parents do not pay property taxes into the system b/c they don't own property.

Therefore, 100% drain (and that does not even include the increased costs for their bilingual education).

They also use ERs and don't pay.







Back to top
CerealKilla
SMU Fan
Das Boot
Member since Jan 2011
6098 posts

re: Sherriff Joe Arpaio punished for effective policing...


quote:

it doesn't seem to be a 4A issue


There's a Terry analysis in the opinion, but if you say so.






Back to top
CerealKilla
SMU Fan
Das Boot
Member since Jan 2011
6098 posts

re: Sherriff Joe Arpaio punished for effective policing...


quote:

In affirming this Court’s preliminary injunction, not only did the Ninth Circuit establish that the MCSO has no power to arrest such persons under such circumstances, it made clear that the MCSO has no power to detain them to investigate their immigration status. It is the existence of a suspected crime that gives a police officer the right to detain a person for the minimum time necessary to determine whether a crime is in progress. “[P]ossible criminality is key to any Terry investigatory stop or prolonged detention. . . . Absent suspicion that a ‘suspect is engaged in, or is about to engage in, criminal activity,’ law enforcement may not stop or detain an individual.” Ortega-Melendres II, 695 F.3d at 1000 (quoting United States v. Sandoval, 390 F.3d 1077, 1080 (9th Cir. 2004).88 In the absence, then, of any reasonable suspicion of a possible crime, there is no basis on which the MCSO can make an investigative detention—let alone an arrest— based only on the belief that someone is in the country without authorization. See also Arizona v. Johnson, 555 U.S. 323, 326 (2009) (holding that an investigatory stop is justified at its inception only when an officer “reasonably suspects that the person apprehended is committing or has committed a criminal offense”).






Back to top
  Replies (0)
Powerman
LSU Fan
Corpus Christi, TX
Member since Jan 2004
120642 posts

re: Sherriff Joe Arpaio punished for effective policing...


quote:

They get public education (Plyler v. Doe).

Parents do not pay property taxes into the system b/c they don't own property.

Therefore, 100% drain (and that does not even include the increased costs for their bilingual education).

They also use ERs and don't pay.

This applies to many Americans as well

Illegal immigrants pay income taxes though and they obviously pay sales tax on any purchases like anyone else






Back to top
Zach
LSU Fan
Member since May 2005
64066 posts

re: Sherriff Joe Arpaio punished for effective policing...


quote:

Illegal immigrants pay income taxes though

Really? You have to put your SS number on your income tax form. They don't have one.






Back to top
RockyMtnTigerWDE
Auburn Fan
Posibarner CoCaptain 4eva
Member since Oct 2010
41948 posts
 Online 

re: Sherriff Joe Arpaio punished for effective policing...


quote:

They don't have one.


They don't have legal ones, but they have them.






Back to top
  Replies (0)
Powerman
LSU Fan
Corpus Christi, TX
Member since Jan 2004
120642 posts

re: Sherriff Joe Arpaio punished for effective policing...


quote:


Really? You have to put your SS number on your income tax form. They don't have one.



Yes really

They get a fake SS number and their employers withhold the taxes

They usually don't file for fear of deportation so a lot of time they miss out on refund checks






Back to top
Zach
LSU Fan
Member since May 2005
64066 posts

re: Sherriff Joe Arpaio punished for effective policing...


quote:

They get a fake SS number and their employers withhold the taxes

Where does one get a fake SS number? Wouldn't the IRS realize it does not exist?






Back to top


Back to top