Why "occupied Palestine"? We don't call Mexico "occupied Aztec territory"? - Page 4 - TigerDroppings.com

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CarrolltonTiger
LSU Fan
New Orleans
Member since Aug 2005
46291 posts

re: Why "occupied Palestine"? We don't call Mexico "occupied Aztec territory"?


quote:

Israel has historical presence.


Palestinaisns had a permanent presence.

quote:

Does international law not apply to them?


It should but they ignore it and the US protects them.

quote:

Apparently the international community recognized them in 1948.


It recognized both of them.

quote:

Is Palestine a member of the United Nations?


Not full status only becasue the US vetoes recognition, but in the General assembly the palestinains win overwhelmingly. Last vorte was something like 150 to 10 for the palestinians and justice.






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trackfan
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Sep 2010
16044 posts
 Online 

re: Why "occupied Palestine"? We don't call Mexico "occupied Aztec territory"?


What the OP obviously understand is that in 2013, all of Mexico's subjects have Mexican citizenship. Israel would be in a much better position morally if it granted citizenship to all of its Palestinian subjects in the occupied territories, as the U.S. did with Native Americans, Native Hawaiians, Somoans, Puerto Ricans, Guamanians, etc., but Israel would never do that because it is a nation that was founded on the principle of European Jewish supremacy.





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trackfan
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Sep 2010
16044 posts
 Online 

re: Why "occupied Palestine"? We don't call Mexico "occupied Aztec territory"?


quote:

Will the US. be giving California back to Mexico?

No they won't, but Californians will always have full American citizenship including the right to vote for the President and Congress.






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CourseyCorridor
TBD Fan
Baton Rouge, La.
Member since May 2012
1994 posts

re: Why "occupied Palestine"? We don't call Mexico "occupied Aztec territory"?


Never heard of Christian Zionism? Cyrus Scofield? John Hagee? Hal Lindsey?





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SammyTiger
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge, LA
Member since Feb 2009
9280 posts

re: Why "occupied Palestine"? We don't call Mexico "occupied Aztec territory"?


quote:

Palestinaisns had a permanent presence.



Yeah it is great to be able to move into someone else's land once they have been kicked out.
quote:

It should but they ignore it and the US protects them.


And Palestinians follow it.
quote:

It recognized both of them.


the international community minus the Arab world






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Wolfhound45
LSU Fan
Member since Nov 2009
14143 posts

re: Why "occupied Palestine"? We don't call Mexico "occupied Aztec territory"?


Okay, time to begin again.

quote:

Palestinaisns had a permanent presence.


Really? Since when? Are you implying that modern day Palestinians (an Arabic race) are direct descendants of the Philistines? If you are using the Bible as your argument, are you aware of the meaning/etymology of the word?

quote:

It should but they ignore it and the US protects them.


Opinion. The same argument could be made regarding their neighbors.

quote:

It recognized both of them.


Really? What United Nations resolution did this? I would love to see it.


quote:

Not full status only becasue the US vetoes recognition, but in the General assembly the palestinains win overwhelmingly. Last vorte was something like 150 to 10 for the palestinians and justice.


Really? I could have sworn that the Palestinian Liberation Organization had an official status, but no state of Palestine had been recognized.

I think it is time to agree to disagree. I am not going to have my opinion changed on the matter and neither are you.

Best regards.






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Wolfhound45
LSU Fan
Member since Nov 2009
14143 posts

re: Why "occupied Palestine"? We don't call Mexico "occupied Aztec territory"?


quote:

Never heard of Christian Zionism? Cyrus Scofield? John Hagee? Hal Lindsey?


Heard of all of them. Are you inferring that they represent all of evangelical Christianity? If so, you are ill informed. They are at best a minor sect of eschatological thought.






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CourseyCorridor
TBD Fan
Baton Rouge, La.
Member since May 2012
1994 posts

re: Why "occupied Palestine"? We don't call Mexico "occupied Aztec territory"?


By the very nature of the evangelical movement -- it is completely non-centralized, in stark contrast to, say, Catholicism -- of course there would not be a single uniform belief.

But in a 2005 Pew poll, 63 percent of white, evangelical Americans considered the formation of Israel as a fulfillment of prophecy, far more than any other group.

Pew Research

While it's true that not all evangelicals believe in Israel as prophecy fulfillment, most evangelicals believe it and most Americans who do believe it are evangelical. That's not a controversial point.






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ljhog
Arkansas Fan
Lake Jackson, Tx.
Member since Apr 2009
9913 posts

re: Why "occupied Palestine"? We don't call Mexico "occupied Aztec territory"?


quote:

no concept of international law

Because "international law" in this matter is construct of your imagination. When it comes to security issues of a sovereign nation state there is only one rule, act in your own self-interest. Or put another way in the case of Israel, you frick with bull you get the horns.






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Wolfhound45
LSU Fan
Member since Nov 2009
14143 posts

re: Why "occupied Palestine"? We don't call Mexico "occupied Aztec territory"?


quote:

While it's true that not all evangelicals believe in Israel as prophecy fulfillment, most evangelicals believe it and most Americans who do believe it are evangelical. That's not a controversial point


Had you referenced my earlier post, you would see that I believe the same. But to infer that somehow some monolithic "Christian Zionism" exists is untrue. And to date, no one has shown me how evangelical Christianity drives national policy towards Israel. It makes for a great narrative. The problem is, it is not true.






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CarrolltonTiger
LSU Fan
New Orleans
Member since Aug 2005
46291 posts

re: Why "occupied Palestine"? We don't call Mexico "occupied Aztec territory"?


quote:

When it comes to security issues of a sovereign nation state there is only one rule, act in your own self-interest.


The US does not fiollow that rule in regard to our Zionist best buddies in the entire world.

Our queer love for israel is not in our national self-interest.







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ClydeFrog
Oklahoma Fan
Arkansas
Member since Jul 2012
2959 posts

re: Why "occupied Palestine"? We don't call Mexico "occupied Aztec territory"?


The Palestinian crisis is much more recent than when European settlers took land from the Natives.

There are Palestinians alive now who remember when they were removed from their home and this living memory aspect is a huge driving factor in increased tensions. Palestinians now are born in ghetto style dwellings or even camps, sobof course they're angry.

On the flip side, Israelis are being born in occupied territories and grow up thinking the land belongs to them, and rightfully so. Basically the area is a cluster fook with each side having legitimate claims for the land.






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Porky
Arkansas Fan
Member since Aug 2008
12238 posts

re: Why "occupied Palestine"? We don't call Mexico "occupied Aztec territory"?


quote:

Had you referenced my earlier post, you would see that I believe the same. But to infer that somehow some monolithic "Christian Zionism" exists is untrue. And to date, no one has shown me how evangelical Christianity drives national policy towards Israel. It makes for a great narrative. The problem is, it is not true.

Blaming the evangelicals, regardless of whether there's an element of truth in it, is a diversion or a distraction IMO. The real reason for our policies toward Israel doesn't have much to do with religion or altruism. IMO, it has much more to do with money.



This post was edited on 5/26 at 4:18 pm


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MrCarton
UNO Fan
Paradise Valley, MT
Member since Dec 2009
2224 posts

re: Why "occupied Palestine"? We don't call Mexico "occupied Aztec territory"?


quote:

Palestinaisns had a permanent presence.


Really? Since when? Are you implying that modern day Palestinians (an Arabic race) are direct descendants of the Philistines? If you are using the Bible as your argument, are you aware of the meaning/etymology of the word?



This is a really interesting subject in and of itself.

From wiki:
quote:

Nothing is known for certain about the original language or languages of the Philistines, however they were not part of the Semitic Canaanite population.[2] There is some limited evidence in favour of the assumption that the Philistines were Indo-European-speakers either from Greece and/or Luwian speakers from the coast of Asia Minor. Philistine-related words found in the Bible are not Semitic, and can in some cases, with reservations, be traced back to Proto-Indo-European roots.[5] By the beginning of the 1st Millennium BCE they had adopted the general Canaanite language of the region.


Today, modern Palestinian shares about 60% of its words with Arabic. The rest is a combination of vocabulary from several dead languages including Aramaic, syriac Turkish, as well as french and english cognates.

From wiki again:
quote:

Origin

The area where Levantine Arabic is spoken used to speak Canaanite languages (Eblaite, Ugaritic, and then Hebrew-Phoenician, characterized by shift of semitic /a/ to /o/ and /?/ to /š/). It had then adopted the more Western Aramaic in the middle of the 1st millennium BC, generalized as official language by the Persian Empire. Alexander the Great conquered the area, which was then taken by the Romans. Just before arabization, the region certainly counted a significant number of Greek speakers as a part of the Byzantine empire.


Philistines probably became assimilated to some degree and later arabized along with most the other cultures in the region

Another wiki:
quote:

After the rise of Islam in the Arabian Peninsula, Arab culture and language spread through trade with African states, conquest, and intermarriage of the non-Arab local population with the Arabs, in Egypt, Syria, Palestine, Iraq and the Sudan. The peninsular Arabic language became common among these areas; dialects also formed. Also, though Yemen is traditionally held to be the homeland of Arabs, most[1] of the population did not speak Arabic (but instead South Semitic languages) prior to the spread of Islam.


While it is silly to imply the people that now live in the levant are direct descendants of a particular ancient group or culture, it would be equally silly to say that arabization has stripped them of any connection at all.

As a side note: of all the dialects of "Arabic" IMO levantine has the the least in common with traditional and standard arabic. This includes Lebanese and Palestinian dialects, which are very closely related (with some exceptions not worth going into).

My opinion is the "Palestinians" have nothing to do with the Philistines, at least not directly. They are likely called Palestinian because they lived in the region of the Levant historically known as Palestine (biblical and historical reasons for this) and they likely have a diverse and storied lineage which includes both semitic and Indo-European periods and influences. Regardless of what we call them and how accurate that term is, to me it is clear that they have been there in some fashion for a long time. Hell, Byblos or "jbiel" has been continuously inhabited for the last 8000 years or more. That is a damn long time.
Anyway, just my two pennies.






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Wolfhound45
LSU Fan
Member since Nov 2009
14143 posts

re: Why "occupied Palestine"? We don't call Mexico "occupied Aztec territory"?


quote:

Anyway, just my two pennies.


Well done sir.






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Roaad
LSU Fan
Bushrod Owns
Member since Aug 2006
52230 posts

re: Why "occupied Palestine"? We don't call Mexico "occupied Aztec territory"?


quote:

What's even more annoying is conservatives feeling sorry for Israel when they're such a parasite that leeches off of the U.S.
Ditto liberals and Africa.

But I guess that doesn't suit your point.






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OMLandshark
Ole Miss Fan
Member since Apr 2009
37438 posts
 Online 

re: Why "occupied Palestine"? We don't call Mexico "occupied Aztec territory"?


The problem is the Palestinians are alive and well (relatively speaking), and those other races aren't.

quote:

Even Tibet is "China",


China is occupying pretty much all of its Western provinces, so it really goes without saying.






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SammyTiger
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge, LA
Member since Feb 2009
9280 posts

re: Why "occupied Palestine"? We don't call Mexico "occupied Aztec territory"?


quote:

The US does not fiollow that rule in regard to our Zionist best buddies in the entire world.

Our queer love for israel is not in our national self-interest.


Making our women wear burkas and converting our population would help too, but we don't act solely in self-interest, however that doesn't stop us from doing anything we think we need to do in the name of self interest.






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carbola
Michigan Fan
Middle East
Member since Aug 2010
3737 posts

re: Why "occupied Palestine"? We don't call Mexico "occupied Aztec territory"?


quote:

They're not. They're just a bunch of Arab Muslims living there now.



ummm this isn't 100% true honestly:

'A minority within a minority': Artist tells the story of the Palestinian Christians

Palestinian Christians ‘mistreated’ by Israel at Easter celebrations

Palestinian Christians Struggle
With Israeli Occupation


(To be fair I have never seen any other stories from these last two news sources and they could be 100% outright bias, but I was just trying to show that there is such a thing as a Palestinian Christian)

And there are even Palestinian Jews, however, most if not all of them just became citizens of Israel.

quote:

There are Christians right now in Syria, Egypt, Lebanon,etc. who are being driven off their lands but I don't see anyone championing their rights.
Lebanon was meant to be the "Christian Hub" in the ME, but they are such a minority over there and are overlooked all the time. With that said, there are Catholic churches in places like Kuwait, but as a whole Middle Eastern Christians are overlooked and ignored because they don't fit the Muslim on Muslim fighting or Muslim vs. Jew press story






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brick
Tennessee Fan
Member since May 2009
1159 posts

re: Why "occupied Palestine"? We don't call Mexico "occupied Aztec territory"?


You have to be kidding, Israel gets the biggest pass in the history of passes,

good try anyway.






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