Sherriff Joe Arpaio punished for effective policing... | Page 6 | TigerDroppings.com

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GoBigOrange86
Tennessee Fan
Lowcountry, The South, USA
Member since Jun 2008
13683 posts

re: Sherriff Joe Arpaio punished for effective policing...


SFP is saying the bigger problem is the welfare state, not the immigrants. Immigration, in and of itself, is not bad at all. There is nothing wrong with people wanting to come to America to make a better life for themselves. We should be flattered -- this is the greatest country on the face of the planet.

The problem is the governmental system we have set up incentivizes people to drain resources. This is not a sustainable model. I would be much more for rehauling the welfare system before I would be for closing the border.






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CerealKilla
SMU Fan
Das Boot
Member since Jan 2011
6098 posts

re: Sherriff Joe Arpaio punished for effective policing...


DP


This post was edited on 5/26 at 11:57 am


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CerealKilla
SMU Fan
Das Boot
Member since Jan 2011
6098 posts

re: Sherriff Joe Arpaio punished for effective policing...


You can read the opinion for specifics. But the police were detaining people for non-criminal violations, i.e., no reasonable suspicion.





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Mike da Tigah
St. Denham Rougeville
Member since Feb 2005
41337 posts

re: Sherriff Joe Arpaio punished for effective policing...


quote:

Don't deflect. A government official violated the Constituition. You should be outraged, perhaps host a rally.


I'm not. I just though someone might like to address the Federal Government's dereliction in their duties laid out clearly in the Constitution, the very same that has put the burden upon states, and pertinent to this case, A LOCAL SHERIFF to carry out the duties the Federal Government refuses to adhere to. For if the Feds were doing their duty, then you wouldn't have a sheriff pulling the duty, and this would be a non issue.







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SlowFlowPro
Stanford Fan
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
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re: Sherriff Joe Arpaio punished for effective policing...


quote:

But the police were detaining people for non-criminal violations, i.e., no reasonable suspicion.

the article sounds like the drivers were stopped legally but possibly detained for an immigration check

i'm looking for a copy of the opinion






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CerealKilla
SMU Fan
Das Boot
Member since Jan 2011
6098 posts

re: Sherriff Joe Arpaio punished for effective policing...


Would stop drivers for traffic violation, then detain passengers for being in country illegally which is not a criminal violation.





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Patrick O Rly
New Orleans Saints Fan
y u do dis?
Member since Aug 2011
38223 posts

re: Sherriff Joe Arpaio punished for effective policing...


quote:

Well then by all means let's simply throw the door open to everyone and everyone, it is all a net positive right?



The money it would cost to "secure the border" would be much greater than any loses we might take from services to immigrants, and you immigrants would still find a way into the country. Don't be an idiot.






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Jbird
Iowa Fan
In Odramaville with EthanL
Member since Oct 2012
16935 posts

re: Sherriff Joe Arpaio punished for effective policing...


quote:

The money it would cost to "secure the border" would be much greater than any loses we might take from services to immigrants, and you immigrants would still find a way into the country


So the fix is open borders with zero security? You think it will be cheaper when every doosh and his burkha wearing old lady can roll in drain money via service then roll out whenever they want? GFY on the idiot call little Rexy.






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SlowFlowPro
Stanford Fan
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
299642 posts
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re: Sherriff Joe Arpaio punished for effective policing...


quote:

Would stop drivers for traffic violation,

which is PC

quote:

then detain passengers for being in country illegally which is not a criminal violation.

i am pretty sure that it's illegal under arizona law

if you're detained for an illegal act, and then investigated for another illegal act, it seems like it doesn't violate your actual constitutional rights. now if you want to jump on the twisting and expansion of federal powers (that funny enough isn't in the constitution), then you can argue it

but since your initial comment was re; tea partiers, and they reject this expansion of the federal government, your claims of hypocrisy or ideological inconsistency don't really work






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CerealKilla
SMU Fan
Das Boot
Member since Jan 2011
6098 posts

re: Sherriff Joe Arpaio punished for effective policing...


Stopping a car for a traffic violation and keeping everyone there for 40+ minutes is unreasonable.





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SlowFlowPro
Stanford Fan
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
299642 posts
 Online 

re: Sherriff Joe Arpaio punished for effective policing...


quote:

Stopping a car for a traffic violation and keeping everyone there for 40+ minutes is unreasonable.

even under USSC standards, this is not true...at least when the officer suspects drug activity

a "dog search" search will take an hour. if they strip your vehicle it will take a few hours






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CerealKilla
SMU Fan
Das Boot
Member since Jan 2011
6098 posts

re: Sherriff Joe Arpaio punished for effective policing...


And if the police base the stop, not on suspected drug activity, but on the suspect's race?





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CerealKilla
SMU Fan
Das Boot
Member since Jan 2011
6098 posts

re: Sherriff Joe Arpaio punished for effective policing...


Here's the opinion.

LINK






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SlowFlowPro
Stanford Fan
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re: Sherriff Joe Arpaio punished for effective policing...


quote:

And if the police base the stop, not on suspected drug activity, but on the suspect's race?

you're changing the facts to fit your argument as well as willingly ignoring the reality of drug stops

back to the argument, though, the prohibition on using race as a factor is not in the constitution. it's typically based in federal law. sometimes it's based in expansive judicial activism that warped our constitution. tea partiers reject this judicial expansion of power, so i don't see how it's a "gotcha"






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Patrick O Rly
New Orleans Saints Fan
y u do dis?
Member since Aug 2011
38223 posts

re: Sherriff Joe Arpaio punished for effective policing...


quote:

So the fix is open borders with zero security? You think it will be cheaper when every doosh and his burkha wearing old lady can roll in drain money via service then roll out whenever they want?


There is no "fix," but our current policy is asinine. It makes no sense to make people jump through all sorts of bureaucratic hoops to come and work, which is what most of them come here for. You give open access (through our current entry points which have security) to work and you'll have a lot less land and people to police.

quote:

GFY on the idiot call little Rexy.


Geez. First off this sentence makes no sense, and Rex is smarter than a lot of you guys. He's trolling you guys so hard.






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CerealKilla
SMU Fan
Das Boot
Member since Jan 2011
6098 posts

re: Sherriff Joe Arpaio punished for effective policing...


I'm not changing the facts. Those are the facts that led to this case. This has nothing to do with drug stops. Read the opinion.





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CerealKilla
SMU Fan
Das Boot
Member since Jan 2011
6098 posts

re: Sherriff Joe Arpaio punished for effective policing...


After reading the opinion, was it determined that the Constitution was violated?





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SlowFlowPro
Stanford Fan
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
299642 posts
 Online 

re: Sherriff Joe Arpaio punished for effective policing...


quote:

This has nothing to do with drug stops

that was only brought up b/c of your reliance on "40 minutes being unreasonable" for a stop, when clearly it's not in other contexts

therefore, a 40 minute stop based on initial PC is clearly not against the 4th amendment, so that dog don't hunt

so again, i ask where do we find the violation in the written constitution?






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CerealKilla
SMU Fan
Das Boot
Member since Jan 2011
6098 posts

re: Sherriff Joe Arpaio punished for effective policing...


Do you believe it is reasonable for a suspect to wait 40 minutes while the police try to get a drug dog to the scene, then when the dog arrives on scene, it never alerts?





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Five0
USA Fan
Member since Dec 2009
5567 posts

re: Sherriff Joe Arpaio punished for effective policing...


quote:

Would stop drivers for traffic violation, then detain passengers for being in country illegally which is not a criminal violation.


Nope. They are detained to determine their identity in order to check for warrants or other issues. Yes it can take awhile. If you have to, you can hold a person and send their prints to the FBI. Very rare, but legal. It can take a couple of days.






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