Looks like internet sales tax legislation will pass the senate today - Page 4 - TigerDroppings.com

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NHTIGER
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re: Looks like internet sales tax legislation will pass the senate today


Passed 70-24 at 6:04 PM EST





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junkfunky
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re: Looks like internet sales tax legislation will pass the senate today


(no message)


This post was edited on 5/6 at 5:15 pm


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DEANintheYAY
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re: Looks like internet sales tax legislation will pass the senate today


Was just about to post the final vote.

Amazon has already started collecting taxes in some states (TX and CA are the 2 big ones I think), so I think they knew this was going to eventually happen.






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udtiger
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re: Looks like internet sales tax legislation will pass the senate today


Right after the nightly national news.

Convenient.






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GumboPot
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re: Looks like internet sales tax legislation will pass the senate today


quote:

Passed 70-24 at 6:04 PM EST


The bill received more yay votes than I expected.

Even with sale tax getting applied, I probably won't change my shopping behavior. I'm still going to shop mostly online. With free shipping and the ability to easily price compare online shopping is still an advantage for the most part. The only thing that brick and mortar stores have is the ability to kick the tires and/or for products that need after market service.






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Lsut81
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re: Looks like internet sales tax legislation will pass the senate today


I read an interesting question.... Is this not a tax bill that started in the Senate???





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GumboPot
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re: Looks like internet sales tax legislation will pass the senate today


quote:

I read an interesting question.... Is this not a tax bill that started in the Senate???


Good question that I don't know the answer to.

If this bill is considered a tax then it certainly is unconstitutional.

If I'm forced to predict the outcomes of the lawsuits that will certainly come of this bill, I don't think this will be ruled a tax by SCOTUS. It will probably be ruled as a constitutional law based on the ICC.








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drexyl
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re: Looks like internet sales tax legislation will pass the senate today


I really don't have a huge problem with this. Sales tax is the law of the states and if there ever was a loophole this is one. and from what i read you have to have a million dollars of sales in a state where you have no other sales tax nexus for it to even apply. mom and pops will be okay.





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Lsut81
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re: Looks like internet sales tax legislation will pass the senate today


quote:

If this bill is considered a tax then it certainly is unconstitutional.


I'm not sure if it is considered a tax, just asking the question... Because its not the feds that are instituting the tax, they are allowing the states to.

But I don't see how that is a Federal issue






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GumboPot
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re: Looks like internet sales tax legislation will pass the senate today


On constitutional grounds it looks like this bill passed by the Senate last night is in direct conflict with Article 1 Section 9. Well, not the bill itself but that actions of the states if they were to follow the bill's direction.

quote:

The Constitution of the United States of America, Article 1, Section 9 it states: No tax or Duty shall be laid on Articles exported from any state. Export means articles or items shipped over state lines to any other state or country. (See Federalist Papers 42 (11 and 12) Supervision of Interstate Commerce).


LINK

quote:

No Tax or Duty shall be laid on Articles exported from any State.


LINK

That language is pretty dern clear. I just don't see how congress or SCOTUS can get around that simple and plain language without actually amending the constitution.






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GumboPot
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re: Looks like internet sales tax legislation will pass the senate today


quote:

mom and pops will be okay.


Mom and pops will be okay regardless of this bill. Mom and pops benefit from the likes of ebay and amazon. Ebay and amazon are essentially proxy store fronts for mom and pops. I buy from mom and pops through Amazon and Ebay all the time.

The folks that want this bill are state and municipal governments for obvious reasons and big box department stores.

The big box stores need foot traffic. They need foot traffic to sell their high profit items, like candy, coke, and other impulse small buys. Without foot traffic they are not selling these impulse buys. They need the guy to walk in with the intention of buying a 42" HD TV and walking out with a 56" HD TV with surround sound system, six Blue Ray DVDs and all kinds of junk candy for the kids. If the consumer is buying online, all he's getting is the 42" HD TV as he originally intended.






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Lsut81
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re: Looks like internet sales tax legislation will pass the senate today


quote:

without actually amending the constitution.



Another question I was going to have... It sounds like with this Bill, politicians have tried to "Nullify the USSC's 1990 ruling" (their words, not mine).

If that ruling was based on the constitution, wouldn't Congress have to pass an Amendment and it then be passed by the states






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Lsut81
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re: Looks like internet sales tax legislation will pass the senate today


quote:

Mom and pops will be okay regardless of this bill


So what stops a company that sells via ebay or amazon and has 2m dollars in sales from just creating personal accounts and limiting their sales to 1m per individual in order to get by this legislation






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Asgard Device
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re: Looks like internet sales tax legislation will pass the senate today


quote:

quote: No Tax or Duty shall be laid on Articles exported from any State.


Doesn't this already happen when I buy online from a national retailer, HQ'd in California and shipped from Texas, but I pay sales tax because the retailer has a presence in La?






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Lsut81
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re: Looks like internet sales tax legislation will pass the senate today


quote:

Doesn't this already happen when I buy online from a national retailer, HQ'd in California and shipped from Texas, but I pay sales tax because the retailer has a presence in La?


Yes, it only applies if that company has a physical presence in your state...


btw, how would this bill affect sales over the phone??? I bought a watch out of state only because I saves $$$ on sales tax, would I now be charged via this Bill?






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GumboPot
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re: Looks like internet sales tax legislation will pass the senate today


quote:

Another question I was going to have... It sounds like with this Bill, politicians have tried to "Nullify the USSC's 1990 ruling" (their words, not mine).


The language the court used in the 1992 Quill v ND case is the following:

quote:

The underlying issue here is one that Congress may be better qualified to resolve, and one that it has the ultimate power to resolve.


LINK

But that language goes for any court ruling.

In order for congress to resolve the issue of allowing states to collect sales taxes over state lines seems to be a huge legislative hurdle. That is Article 1 Section 9 Paragraph 5 will need to be amended. And to amend that section will require 2/3rds majority of both houses, the POTUS signature and 39 states (3/4s) to ratify the amendment...that's a huge hurdle.






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chadau79
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Member since Sep 2009
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re: Looks like internet sales tax legislation will pass the senate today


quote:

read an interesting question.... Is this not a tax bill that started in the Senate???


It is not a tax bill, just an operational procedeure to collect taxes under laws they say are already on the books. You are supposed to claim the taxes on a federal/state form at tax time. Now they changes the procedure to collect them up front instead.



This post was edited on 5/7 at 9:28 am


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GumboPot
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re: Looks like internet sales tax legislation will pass the senate today


quote:

So what stops a company that sells via ebay or amazon and has 2m dollars in sales from just creating personal accounts and limiting their sales to 1m per individual in order to get by this legislation


The legislation that passed says the following:

(c) Small Seller Exception- A State shall be authorized to require a remote seller, or a single or consolidated provider acting on behalf of a remote seller, to collect sales or use tax under this Act if the remote seller has gross annual receipts in total remote sales in the United States in the preceding calendar year exceeding $500,000. For purposes of determining whether the threshold in this subsection is met, the sales of all persons related within the meaning of subsections (b) and (c) of section 267 or section 707(b)(1) of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 shall be aggregated.

I think the bolded part is the catch all for anybody that tries to circumvent the law and have multiple companies under the NOW $500,000 dollar threshold.

NOTICE, what the slimy bastards did. The proposed legislation (I read it yesterday) has a cut off for small sellers of $1,000,000. That number got conveniently reduced to $500,000 in the senate passed legislation.

What slimy bastards.



This post was edited on 5/7 at 9:33 am


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GumboPot
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re: Looks like internet sales tax legislation will pass the senate today


quote:

Doesn't this already happen when I buy online from a national retailer, HQ'd in California and shipped from Texas, but I pay sales tax because the retailer has a presence in La?



Yep. Because the retailer has a "presence" in La where you live.






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Lsut81
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re: Looks like internet sales tax legislation will pass the senate today


quote:

NOTICE, what the slimy bastards did. The proposed legislation (I read it yesterday) has a cut off for small sellers of $1,000,000. That number got conveniently reduced to $500,000 in the senate passed legislation.


Wait, so its now 500k???






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