The truth about Garrett Hartley | Page 5 | TigerDroppings.com

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AmosMosesAndTwins
New Orleans Saints Fan
Lake Charles
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re: The truth about Garrett Hartley


quote:

So take the statistic with an adderall.








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Chad504boy
New Orleans Saints Fan
Five Oh Four
Member since Feb 2005
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re: The truth about Garrett Hartley


You are relying upon what was done 5 yrs ago to hold water. That's like saying a rb avged 5.2 yds a yr and 3.9 for 5 yrs but everything okay cause his old stats are still floating his numbers





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bonethug0108
New Orleans Saints Fan
Avondale
Member since Mar 2013
4760 posts

re: The truth about Garrett Hartley


No I'm saying his 81% average over the last 3 is still solid.





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Chad504boy
New Orleans Saints Fan
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Member since Feb 2005
81466 posts

re: The truth about Garrett Hartley


I've shown it's well below every year actually





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bonethug0108
New Orleans Saints Fan
Avondale
Member since Mar 2013
4760 posts

re: The truth about Garrett Hartley


No it's not. The yearly average is around 83-84%. He's been at 81% the last 3. That's far from "well below". The top kickers are usually around 90% and the bottom ones around 75%. Some years the top 5 are slightly higher and the bottom 5 are slightly lower, But Hartley at 81% is not "far below" average(83-84%).

This is one year to the next and that's why it's important to look at career %s as some guy that hit 93% one year will go and hit 78% the next.

The last 3 years Hartley has been right around 80-82%. That's consistent and not "well below" average. He's been slightly below and if we can find someone better than great. But most of those guys are already signed on other teams.

Name a damn replacement.

Anything else you want to make up or skew?



This post was edited on 5/2 at 10:17 pm


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Chad504boy
New Orleans Saints Fan
Five Oh Four
Member since Feb 2005
81466 posts

re: The truth about Garrett Hartley


I've shown you his yearly ranking in the league, screw these nuts you screw ball. Are you going to give me the if he made an extra fg or two argument next? He's ranked like 23-27 in the league Woopy Doopy





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bonethug0108
New Orleans Saints Fan
Avondale
Member since Mar 2013
4760 posts

re: The truth about Garrett Hartley


I'm not saying he's great. I'm saying name me a replacement. You want him gone but who the frick do we replace him with that's better?

There's no one out there. You bring in a young unknown in camp and cross your fingers but that's what we've been doing(as do most teams) and it rarely happens.

Hartley is going to be here for a while barring some lucky(and unlikely) find on a young kid. You'll just have to get used to it.






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htran90
New Orleans Saints Fan
belle chasse
Member since Dec 2012
5280 posts

re: The truth about Garrett Hartley


The issue I have is his low % from under 40 yards. for a guy getting paid 3mil a year, I would hope he can at least hit 90% from under 40 for the past 3 years.

He is 34/41 or 82.9% that is NOT great.






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bonethug0108
New Orleans Saints Fan
Avondale
Member since Mar 2013
4760 posts

re: The truth about Garrett Hartley


Again, never said he was great. Not once. I said name a replacement. You guys want to bitch about him but offer no solution.





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Chad504boy
New Orleans Saints Fan
Five Oh Four
Member since Feb 2005
81466 posts

re: The truth about Garrett Hartley


You've spent many a words defending his numbers and accusing me of skewing bro. If you've come to the light you should start a lets find a replacement for Hartley thread. Lets continue focusing on the truth about Hartley.!





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bonethug0108
New Orleans Saints Fan
Avondale
Member since Mar 2013
4760 posts

re: The truth about Garrett Hartley


I'm not defending his numbers. I'm putting them in perspective. He's not a terrible kicker(and neither is he great) but like I said there is no replacement out there. I'm saying if you want him gone how about you name guys you think can replace him. I have no one.





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Chad504boy
New Orleans Saints Fan
Five Oh Four
Member since Feb 2005
81466 posts

re: The truth about Garrett Hartley


Plenty of kickers will become available by start of year





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bonethug0108
New Orleans Saints Fan
Avondale
Member since Mar 2013
4760 posts

re: The truth about Garrett Hartley


quote:

As of April 24th

Lawrence Tynes
Neil Rackers- retired
Billy Cundiff
Ryan Longwell
Olindo Mare
John Kasay- retired
Dave Rayner- retired
Justin Medlock- run out of the league(12 career attempts)
Rhys Lloyd- run out of the league(0 career attempts)
Garrett Lindhom- run out of the league(0 career attempts)
Maybe a couple of those guys could be enticed out of retirement, but not for vet minimum.

The only active ones are Tynes(81.5%, 34 years old), Cundiff(75.5%, 32 years old), Longwell(83.2%, 38 years old), and Mare(81.1%, 39 years old). We've tried two of them already(Cundiff and Mare).

Only one of those guys has a noticeably barely higher career % than Hartley's recent 3 year 81%(yet lower than Hartley's 84.5% career %), and he's 38. You want to dump a 26 year old kicker over 2% for a 38 year old kicker?

And who are these great kickers getting released? That rarely happens and it's usually the old washed up ones that are going to get you between 75-80%(Kasay).

Let's try to be realistic.






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htran90
New Orleans Saints Fan
belle chasse
Member since Dec 2012
5280 posts

re: The truth about Garrett Hartley


I'm sure there's a UDFA out there just like how hartley was, right? It doesn't hurt to bring some into camp to compete with him. He's not GREAT, he's not horrible, but he's costed us an adequate amount of games with "gimme's" you can't really defend a 82% <40yrd kicker for the last 3 years.

even kickers like olindo mare have a higher <40yrd% and he's not even THAT great of a kicker.






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bonethug0108
New Orleans Saints Fan
Avondale
Member since Mar 2013
4760 posts

re: The truth about Garrett Hartley


From my recollection he's only "cost" us 3 games. And the defense sure in the hell didn't hold up after we went ahead in those games.

Yeah MAYBE there's an udfa, but that's rare.



This post was edited on 5/3 at 12:08 am


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Hoodoo Man
LSU Fan
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Member since Oct 2011
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re: The truth about Garrett Hartley


quote:

Yeah MAYBE there's an udfa, but that's rare.


JJ






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bountyhunter
New Orleans Saints Fan
Red Stick
Member since Mar 2012
1824 posts

re: The truth about Garrett Hartley


The way I look at Harley is he is a slightly above average kicker. Take Matt Bryant for Atlanta last year, for example. How many games did he win for his team last year? Like 4 or 5? He's paid 2.4M in base salary, Hartley is 2.1M ( source). Are we getting what we are paying for? Absolutely not. Would I prefer him over most kickers in the NFL? Definitely. But who knows, there is always training camp to decide who gets the job.


This post was edited on 5/3 at 12:16 am


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htran90
New Orleans Saints Fan
belle chasse
Member since Dec 2012
5280 posts

re: The truth about Garrett Hartley


adam vinatieri - undrafted 89.9% under 40 (82.6% career) 3.4mil cap hit
justin tucker - undrafted (rookie) 100% under 40 (90.9% career) 570k cap hit
kai forbath - undrafted (rookie) 83.3% under 40 (94.4% career) 570k cap hit
phil dawson - undrafted 90.6% under 40 (84% career) 2.35m cap hit
dan bailey - undrafted (2 years) 97.5% under 40 (89.7% career) 555k cap hit
shaun suisham - undrafted 89.4% under 40 (81.3% career) 1.76m cap hit
nick novak - undrafted 85% under 40 (76.2% career) 1.125m cap hit
garrett hartley - undrafted 86% under 40 (84.5% career) 2.67m cap hit
jay feely - undrafted 90.3% under 40 (82.6% career) 1.75m cap hit
matt bryant - undrafted 92.7% under 40 (84.4% career) 2.96m cap hit


one thing they all have in common is they're better than him under 40 yards, minus novak.
Hartley has a better accuracy from longer than 40, but wouldn't you feel safer with a guy that can hit under 40yards 90% of the time?

We can find UDFA kickers. I'm pretty confident we can find one within the next year or two



This post was edited on 5/3 at 12:28 am


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bonethug0108
New Orleans Saints Fan
Avondale
Member since Mar 2013
4760 posts

re: The truth about Garrett Hartley


quote:

garrett hartley - undrafted 86% under 40 (84.5% career) 2.67m cap hit
ALL of them are better than Hartley at under 40? You have Hartley on the list and he is better than 2 of them.

And only 3 of them have a better career %.

I see you caught one with the edit but not the other.



This post was edited on 5/3 at 12:47 am


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bonethug0108
New Orleans Saints Fan
Avondale
Member since Mar 2013
4760 posts

re: The truth about Garrett Hartley


quote:

adam vinatieri - 1996(worse career %)
justin tucker - 2012
kai forbath - 2011(worse under 40 %)
phil dawson - 1998(worse career %)
dan bailey - 2011
shaun suisham - 2005(worse career %)
nick novak - 2005(worse under 40 and career %)
jay feely - 2001(worse career %)
matt bryant - 2002


First that tells me 3 of those guys don't have enough years to judge how good they are(not saying they are bad, but 1 or 2 years is nothing for an NFL kicker; guys have flamed quickly after looking bright before).

Second, in 17 years that's only 10 guys. As I said, 3 of them are too early to call.

Like I said, you don't find UDFA kickers that are good too often. Looks like 3 teams the last 2 years may have lucked out, but it was after a 6 year drought.

Just gonna say good luck with that.






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