Our National Debt - Interest Payments over Time - Page 2 - TigerDroppings.com

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Lsut81
USA Fan
Member since Jun 2005
64637 posts

re: Our National Debt - Interest Payments over Time


quote:

our debt is an asset


Oh yeah, I remember that comment... Hold on







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SlowFlowPro
Stanford Fan
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
296043 posts

re: Our National Debt - Interest Payments over Time


so when are we going to address the debt?





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WikiTiger
LSU Fan
Member since Sep 2007
40721 posts

re: Our National Debt - Interest Payments over Time


quote:

 our debt is an asset



Who the frick said that?






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Sentrius
USA Fan
Fort Rozz
Member since Jun 2011
19854 posts

re: Our National Debt - Interest Payments over Time


quote:

Who the frick said that?


Random liberal poster.

I think his handle's name is germandawg?

Anyway, what a preposterous statement that was.

ETA: Link to post in question.

LINK



This post was edited on 4/28 at 1:11 pm


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WikiTiger
LSU Fan
Member since Sep 2007
40721 posts

re: Our National Debt - Interest Payments over Time


This is not an attempt to detail this thread in any way, but your OP is as strong of an argument as any for the separation of money and state.

If we can separate religion and state, why not money?






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WikiTiger
LSU Fan
Member since Sep 2007
40721 posts

re: Our National Debt - Interest Payments over Time


quote:

ink to post in question


pretty much a textbook Keynesian argument






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SlowFlowPro
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re: Our National Debt - Interest Payments over Time


well, you can't fully separate state from money. if there is a state, it will be a market participant, and will have an effect on money

this is the issue, imho

it's painfully obvious that the government (state and local) is FAR too much of a market participant

i've made some threads on this:

Of course austerity if hurting UK in the short term. that's a sign of too much government

Breaking point of the fed in the economy






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GhostofJackson
Tulane Fan
Everybody-gets-a-trophy land
Member since Nov 2009
3784 posts

re: Our National Debt - Interest Payments over Time


We have already passed the event horizon on the dollar. Each day that passes we lose purchasing power and we are selling off all of our gold. The dollar is already worthless, but no one has called us on it yet.





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SlowFlowPro
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re: Our National Debt - Interest Payments over Time


the dollar isn't worthless as long as we have a military that can butt frick anybody and the biggest free economy in the world





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Taxing Authority
LSU Fan
Houston
Member since Feb 2010
22673 posts

re: Our National Debt - Interest Payments over Time


quote:

immediate tax increase makes public more involved in spending decisions.
With 47-ish% not paying taxes... good luck with that.

I propose we take the federal budget divide it by the population and there is your tax bill. THAT would get everyone involved, and we'd all share equally in funding our government. Nothing would be more fair.






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GhostofJackson
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re: Our National Debt - Interest Payments over Time


quote:

the dollar isn't worthless as long as we have a military that can butt frick anybody and the biggest free economy in the world


Meh, that assumes this devaluation of the dollar is an accidental product. It isn't.






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SlowFlowPro
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Member since Jan 2004
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re: Our National Debt - Interest Payments over Time


we're inflating to pay our debt with indirect/unseen taxation via inflation





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GhostofJackson
Tulane Fan
Everybody-gets-a-trophy land
Member since Nov 2009
3784 posts

re: Our National Debt - Interest Payments over Time


quote:

we're inflating to pay our debt with indirect/unseen taxation via inflation


I understand that, but the issue is the ideology behind it is to destroy the dollars purchasing power. Creating a monetary system based on debt is solely a wealth accumulation scheme.






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TrueTiger
LSU Fan
Chicken's most valuable
Member since Sep 2004
10290 posts

re: Our National Debt - Interest Payments over Time


quote:

taxation via inflation



It's the tax that is hits everyone and it is very regressive.






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WikiTiger
LSU Fan
Member since Sep 2007
40721 posts

re: Our National Debt - Interest Payments over Time


quote:

well, you can't fully separate state from money. if there is a state, it will be a market participant, and will have an effect on money

this is the issue, imho

it's painfully obvious that the government (state and local) is FAR too much of a market participant


that's not what I'm talking about at all. you missed my point.

I know the government will be a market participant. That's not the issue. The issue is that the government shouldn't be in control of the money.

That would solve many problems as it would force all levels of government to be more judicious with what funds they can collect. It would also result in much smaller governments because the inability to inflate would necessitate it.






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SlowFlowPro
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Member since Jan 2004
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re: Our National Debt - Interest Payments over Time


quote:

The issue is that the government shouldn't be in control of the money.

even if it didn't, the public's willingness to expand government would have the same effect on money

remember, we hold the majority of US debt. all that printed money used to buy bonds...held by Americans

regardless of who "controls" the money, as long as there IS a medium of trade and the public CHOOSES to expand government, you'll see the same thing. the people would just allow the government to borrow more and owe them money, like we see today






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joshnorris14
Florida Fan
Florida
Member since Jan 2009
21247 posts

re: Our National Debt - Interest Payments over Time


quote:

regardless of who "controls" the money, as long as there IS a medium of trade and the public CHOOSES to expand government, you'll see the same thing. the people would just allow the government to borrow more and owe them money, like we see today


His point is that some currencies (crypto) would prevent this from happening.






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WikiTiger
LSU Fan
Member since Sep 2007
40721 posts

re: Our National Debt - Interest Payments over Time


quote:

the public's willingness to expand government would have the same effect on money


I disagree.

quote:

we hold the majority of US debt


Sure, but why? (I'll get to that in a minute.)

quote:

regardless of who "controls" the money, as long as there IS a medium of trade and the public CHOOSES to expand government, you'll see the same thing. the people would just allow the government to borrow more and owe them money, like we see today


Again, I disagree.

First of all, if we're talking about a deflationary currency out of the control of government, then your premise completely contradicts the traditional arguments against deflationary currencies (i.e. people won't invest because it's better to just hold on to their money). So if they won't invest, then why are people lending to governments? In other words, the governments better offer one hell of a return on that investment if they are going to convince people to part with their deflationary currency.

So, lacking government control of money, why would people invest in their government voluntarily? And regarding taxation, even if the government was able to efficiently collect taxes on another form of money, the inability to inflate it will still kept them small.


This is why governments don't like currency competition.



This post was edited on 4/28 at 2:59 pm


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WikiTiger
LSU Fan
Member since Sep 2007
40721 posts

re: Our National Debt - Interest Payments over Time


Back to the OP:

Our national debt is really only part of the problem. The entire global financial system is built on debt, with the US at the vanguard. The whole system is unsustainable and will come crashing down eventually. These questions remain:

1) When will that happen? Who knows....I'd guess within 50 years.

2) Will technology be sufficient enough to soften the blow? If not, there will be a lot of violence and wars.






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SlowFlowPro
Stanford Fan
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
296043 posts

re: Our National Debt - Interest Payments over Time


quote:

His point is that some currencies (crypto) would prevent this from happening.

understandable, but even in a world of competing currencies, a currency that is competing with otehrs but backed by an army would have an advantage






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