Spending on film tax credits would pay tuition at LSU for 70,000 students - Page 5 - TigerDroppings.com

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I B Freeman
Member since Oct 2009
5126 posts

re: Spending on film tax credits would pay tuition at LSU for 70,000 students


quote:

You are missing my point. The citizens are better off by having the $900 million that it would not have had otherwise. You are only looking form the state's budget perspective.

A. The govt takes no action. Its GDP is neutral.

B. The govt can spend $250M. That investment brings in $930M. Govt only gets back $70M. There is no question the govt lost $180M.

However, the government's residents benefited, even though the government is at a net loss. Where where is the $930M?


No. I am saying if you think you can give every business 30% of their expenses--which if you believe these things are good you should be willing too--where are you going to get it?

Business activity is not income. They way over state the billion BTW but even if true you saying that it is good to take a quarter of that from the other taxpayers and give it to them. That is what we are doing. The GDP of Louisiana is about $216 Billion dollars. The total taxes that generates for the state is only $8 billon--that is all taxes and fees and royalites. Now that is 3.7% of the GDP of the entire state (the economic activity of the state).

Knowing that you think it is good idea to give one industry $250 million dollars to generate $1 billion?? You want an industry that requires 25% of economic activity to generate only $1 billion in activity while the rest of the state uses only 3.7%?

Economic activity is not profit or even income.

Look you don't understand it and I can't get through your head so I will leave you with even simpler questions.

If giving a film maker 30% of their expenses like salaries, food, electricity ect. is so good then why not give you 30% of your expenses? Does a dollar you spend generate less activity than a dollar they spend? No. Can you see now how it is not possible? That the there would be no state government to make the subsidies after only one year?? Who would give the money to you then?

I am not for protecting the size of government but I damn sure I am not for paying taxes so we can give the film industry $250 million a year. Since we have a balanced budget requirement we are all doing precisely that. Even though there is no tax that says "film tax credit tax" the top line effect on revenue is such that we are paying more than we would have to be paying for the services we get if not for the credits.






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Archie Bengal Bunker
Florida State Fan
UWF Fan
Member since Jun 2008
15159 posts

re: Spending on film tax credits would pay tuition at LSU for 70,000 students


quote:

If giving a film maker 30% of their expenses like salaries, food, electricity ect. is so good then why not give you 30% of your expenses?


The difference is that the citizen is already there; so, there is no return on investment. The citizen is not bringing anything new to the table. Whereas, the filmmaker would not be in the state without the discount.

quote:

You want an industry that requires 25%


Maybe the discount is too big. That is probably a better question than why give an incentive. Maybe, they would do it for 10%. Maybe, 5%. If it was 3.7%, would you be ok with it?

quote:

Economic activity is not profit or even income.


Why does it matter if it is profit? It is more business. Yes, the business owner is spending more on expenses, but he is doing more business. What are the EXTRA expenses? More Labor? = good for the economy. More Inventory? = good for the economy. Overhead? I doubt it. Rent is not changing. Maybe, more energy (electricity, fuel, etc). As a business owner, I think I would want the increased demand. If I am not happy with my profit margin, that is a me problem; more demand shouldn't be an issue.

Now, it has been mentioned in this thread, that A] the industry is bringing in less than the 1B, B] the investment is not going to create a continuing presence/ industry in the state, and C] the govt might be overpaying. While legitimate gripes about the execution in this case, these don't address whether investing in building a new industry in your state is an inherently bad thing. I guess I just don't have as a big a problem with government investing in industry to try to bring a new revenue stream into the state.


quote:

What is the multiplier impact of 71469 college educated citizens??


How many are going to leave the state after graduation?



This post was edited on 4/27 at 7:25 pm


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Poodlebrain
LSU Fan
Way Right of Rex
Member since Jan 2004
14870 posts

re: Spending on film tax credits would pay tuition at LSU for 70,000 students


quote:

People that owe taxes are not paying taxes because they have bought these credits from film tax makers.
Typically the film makers sell the tax credits to brokers for about $0.83 per $1.00 of tax credit, and the brokers sell the credits to taxpayers who want to save on their Louisiana income tax for $0.85 per $1.00 of credit.






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Nguyener
UNO Fan
Member since Mar 2013
378 posts

re: Spending on film tax credits would pay tuition at LSU for 70,000 students


quote:

We spent about $250 million in film tax welfare in 2012.

Net? HOw much money did the film idustry raise or spend in La either by being consumers or paying taxes?

quote:

What is the multiplier impact of 71469 college educated citizens??


So you automatically assume thata there are 71469 students who would graduate college, remain in state, anda be productive members of society anda the only thing holding them back isa the inability to have someone else completely pay fora their education because loans or scholarships are completely out of the question for all of them?

What are the negative consequences to ending the film tax credit?



This post was edited on 4/27 at 10:42 pm


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I B Freeman
Member since Oct 2009
5126 posts

re: Spending on film tax credits would pay tuition at LSU for 70,000 students


quote:

Typically the film makers sell the tax credits to brokers for about $0.83 per $1.00 of tax credit,


Why would they sell them to brokers for 83 when the state will pay 85. Just curious. I suspect the brokers pay more and the buyers pay more too. Even if a large taxpayer saves one percent it is worth it.






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I B Freeman
Member since Oct 2009
5126 posts

re: Spending on film tax credits would pay tuition at LSU for 70,000 students


Archie just face it the tax credits are welfare.

The Governor is not going to touch them because a lot of them end up in media companies. Do you want to take subsidies out of the hands of ABC owned by Disney if you are trying to have national campaign or consult on a national political campaign? Many key leges get lobbied very heavily to keep them in place so they are not going touch them. Mitch Landrieu was a huge supporter of them and a key engineer of the laws that put them in place and now as Mayor of New Orleans so he keeps the New Orleans delegation supporting them

I know personally a very, very powerful member of the House that has a big say in the approiatations bill and he says reasonable people have been quietly trying to kill these credits since KBB and the powers that be are scared of the film/media interest and their broker profiteers in Louisiana.

There is no more lucrative economic incentive on the books than these tax credits.

To give you an idea how easily manipulated and abused these things are think of this. We could start Bunker and Freeman Productions LLC. Borrow a million dollars and put into the LLC and then turn around and pay ourselves that same million dollar as salary, pay off the loan and qualify for $350,000 from Louisiana tax payers if we simply shot a 30 second commercial with a cam corder and play it on a commercial tv station somewhere. We would not even have to recognize any income. You be the star and I will be the director/camera man/producer. We could pay ourselves $10 million if you want. The film industry would call that $10 million in economic activity. We could get $3.5 million from taxpayers then.



This post was edited on 4/27 at 10:35 pm


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Nguyener
UNO Fan
Member since Mar 2013
378 posts

re: Spending on film tax credits would pay tuition at LSU for 70,000 students


quote:

The Governor is not going to touch them because a lot of them end up in media companies. Do you want to take subsidies out of the hands of ABC owned by Disney if you are trying to have national campaign or consult on a national political campaign?


Starta your argument bya tightly securing your tin foil hat, always a good thing.

quote:

To give you an idea how easily manipulated and abused these things are think of this


quote:

Borrow a million dollars


Real easy

quote:

pay ourselves that same million dollar as salary, pay off the loan


SO you in essence, wash the million, by defrauding whatever bank you borrowed that money from, with absolutely no repercussions, got it
quote:

qualify for $350,000 from Louisiana tax payers

So just toa confirm: there is no strings attached, no regulation, no anything? You have a company, you put something on some form of media you get tax credit?

Is there a difference betweena your insane impossible hypothetical and the amount ofa money and business the movie industry brings to La?

The people they bring here havea to stay somewhere, eata somewhere, buya things somewhere, etc... dont they?



This post was edited on 4/27 at 10:43 pm


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I B Freeman
Member since Oct 2009
5126 posts

re: Spending on film tax credits would pay tuition at LSU for 70,000 students


quote:

Starta your argument bya tightly securing your tin foil hat, always a good thing


What you think Jindal is going to take money out of the hands of the very media he seeks to coddle?

quote:

SO you in essence, wash the million, by defrauding whatever bank you borrowed that money from, with absolutely no repercussions, got it
What fraud? Borrow a million and pay back a million. Where is the fraud?

quote:

So just toa confirm: there is no strings attached, no regulation, no anything? You have a company, you put something on some form of media you get tax credit?


Has to be "commercially" marketed but no there are no strings as too how much revenue it generate and there are no limits to how much salaries can be to any individual. The Governor is trying to limit the salaries to $1 million PER PERSON so the likes of Lindsay Lohan's salary is not entirely eligible for Louisiana tax payer money.

quote:

Is there a difference betweena your insane impossible hypothetical and the amount ofa money and business the movie industry brings to La?


There is nothing insane or impossible or even illegal about the proposal that I just laid out for you. There have been illegal things happen inside the program but what I suggested is entirely legal.

quote:

The people they bring here havea to stay somewhere, eata somewhere, buya things somewhere, etc... dont they?


Yes and Bunker and I can get 30% of those expenses paid by taxpayers too.

Why is this so hard for you people to grasp. It is clearly outlined on the film commissions web page.

Are you just in shock we are being so royally screwed?





This post was edited on 4/27 at 10:55 pm


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Nguyener
UNO Fan
Member since Mar 2013
378 posts

re: Spending on film tax credits would pay tuition at LSU for 70,000 students


quote:

Yes and Bunker and I can get 30% of those expenses paid by taxpayers too.



And the other 70% goes...






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ironsides
LSU Fan
new york, ny
Member since May 2006
5763 posts

re: Spending on film tax credits would pay tuition at LSU for 70,000 students


Quick question: how much tax revenue is generated from these entertainment companies if they don't film in Louisiana?





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cosmicdingo
Texas Fan
Springhill, La.
Member since Mar 2006
2009 posts

re: Spending on film tax credits would pay tuition at LSU for 70,000 students


You're kind of a douche, man. What do u have against the cinema? It's a great program. And I think you're a bot.





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RogerTheShrubber
LSU Fan
Juneau, AK
Member since Jan 2009
89397 posts

re: Spending on film tax credits would pay tuition at LSU for 70,000 students


My biggest problem with these tax credits is that it's opening up some shitty television with producers going where it's cheap, and filming these reality shows.





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Nguyener
UNO Fan
Member since Mar 2013
378 posts

re: Spending on film tax credits would pay tuition at LSU for 70,000 students


quote:

Quick question: how much tax revenue is generated from these entertainment companies if they don't film in Louisiana?



What does that have toa do with anything?






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ironsides
LSU Fan
new york, ny
Member since May 2006
5763 posts

re: Spending on film tax credits would pay tuition at LSU for 70,000 students


If the argument is that the tax credits are bad for the state, then how much revenue is generated for the state if you don't have them? It's a simple answer.





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kingbob
LSU Fan
St. Amant, LA
Member since Nov 2010
16399 posts

re: Spending on film tax credits would pay tuition at LSU for 70,000 students


remember, with out the tax credits, tax they are crediting would be zero. And, news flash, they're still paying tax and spending a lot of money on local businesses that are paying taxes. I still hope that a workable solution to abolish the state income tax can be formulated. That way, the tax credit issue will be null and void.





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CourseyCorridor
TBD Fan
Baton Rouge, La.
Member since May 2012
1994 posts

re: Spending on film tax credits would pay tuition at LSU for 70,000 students


quote:

BOONDOGGLE


If you had said "boondoggle" I would not have been convinced. Caps sold the argument.

Now, let's all go back to the TOPS thread and complain that we waste tax money paying for people to go to college.

Considering every decent student in this state can get their tuition paid for, maybe we should use the savings to fund 70k illegal aliens to go to LSU. Would help Miles bring in some Somoans as walk-ons.







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CajunAlum Tiger Fan
LSU Fan
Broussard
Member since Jan 2008
2403 posts
 Online 

re: Spending on film tax credits would pay tuition at LSU for 70,000 students


I really don't care if it's a net negative today, it's an investment for the future. Don't you think part of the reason New Orleans is getting so much buzz right now is the cool factor and creative economy associated with the movie industry? Most cities and states are also trying to lure the creative class and are making similar investments.







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Boudreaux in SF
LSU Fan
silicon valley
Member since May 2005
328 posts

re: Spending on film tax credits would pay tuition at LSU for 70,000 students


quote:

It is like this: Company spends $10 million of whatever they wish making a film including actor salaries and the state writes them a check for $3 million (or 85% of $3million).


So so much wrong with this statement. The tax credit is based upon money spent with Louisiana companies, service providers and salaries paid to Louisiana permanent residents. Lindsay Lohan's salary would not be includable for calculating the tax credit since she is not a resident of Louisiana. Local actors, electricians (gaffers), craft services companies, etc. would be includable.

What you have failed to comprehend in the dozen of your threads on the topic, is this is outside dollars being spent in Louisiana that help the Louisiana economy (put money into the pockets of Louisiana residents). The profits of Lousiana companies from the services provided to the production companies is subject to Louisiana Tax as is the salaries paid to Louisiana residents.

Bottom line: More Louisiana residents working in Louisiana and more outside dollars being spent in Louisiana. Win for a government program.







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I B Freeman
Member since Oct 2009
5126 posts

re: Spending on film tax credits would pay tuition at LSU for 70,000 students


quote:

Lindsay Lohan's salary would not be includable for calculating the tax credit since she is not a resident of Louisiana. Local actors, electricians (gaffers), craft services companies, etc. would be includable.



Wrong. Ms Lohan's salary is absolutely eligible. There is no residency requirement for the salaries to qualify for the 30%. To get 35% they must be residents. You should know what you are talking about before you argue.

quote:

What you have failed to comprehend in the dozen of your threads on the topic, is this is outside dollars being spent in Louisiana that help the Louisiana economy (put money into the pockets of Louisiana residents).


BS. They are TAKING $250 million in cash money from Louisiana tax payers. Their out of state salaries are far bigger than their in state. Name me one in state employee who has gotten more than a million dollar salary from these film makers (Duck Dynasty's Johnsons perhaps) and then tell me just why it is the film industry is fighting Jindal's efforts to limit salaries amounts eligible for the subsidy to $1 million per person?

You people are advocating for an industry that is greedy it opposes limiting out of state and in state employee salaries being subsidized to $1 million per person.



This post was edited on 4/28 at 10:47 am


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I B Freeman
Member since Oct 2009
5126 posts

re: Spending on film tax credits would pay tuition at LSU for 70,000 students


quote:

And the other 70% goes...


We keep it. Why is that hard to understand? Have you no business sense?






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