WHIP doesn't include Hit by Pitch | TigerDroppings.com

Posted byMessage
SwaggerCopter
Texas A&M Fan
Tottenham Hotspur Fan
Member since Dec 2012
12185 posts

WHIP doesn't include Hit by Pitch



This has to be the dumbest stat problem I've ever heard. Does anyone have a good explanation for why they wouldn't want hit batters to be included in walks plus hits per innings pitched?






Back to top
Share:
PillPusher
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
NOLA
Member since Oct 2009
620 posts

re: WHIP doesn't include Hit by Pitch


because the stat is walks plus hits per innings pitched?





Back to top
medtiger
LSU Fan
Cubs Fan
Member since Sep 2003
17747 posts

re: WHIP doesn't include Hit by Pitch


quote:

because the stat is walks plus hits per innings pitched?






Back to top
  Replies (0)
Baloo
LSU Fan
Formerly MDGeaux
Member since Sep 2003
44318 posts

re: WHIP doesn't include Hit by Pitch


Because WHIP is a gimmick stat that no one outside of fantasy baseball enthusiasts take seriously. Why spend time tinkering with it? It is what it is.





Back to top
Harry Caray
USA Fan
Astros 2016 AL West Champs
Member since Aug 2009
13941 posts

re: WHIP doesn't include Hit by Pitch


I agree with OP in that it'd be a more relevant useful stat if HBP were factored in, but it wouldn't make that much of a difference imo





Back to top
  Replies (0)
PrimeTime Money
USA Fan
Houston, Texas, USA
Member since Nov 2012
9582 posts

re: WHIP doesn't include Hit by Pitch


"Everything that's not an out per innings pitched".

ENOIP.







Back to top
LSU GrandDad
LSU Fan
houston, texas
Member since Jun 2009
12334 posts

re: WHIP doesn't include Hit by Pitch


quote:

Because WHIP is a gimmick stat that no one outside of fantasy baseball enthusiasts take seriously. Why spend time tinkering with it? It is what it is.


i gotta call bs on thhis comment. whip is one of the stats that are looked at closely by mlb scouts. they separate hits and walks for their analysis but, over the long haul, these stats and era are the biggies. along with k's per inning of course.






Back to top
VerlanderBEAST
Auburn Fan
Member since Dec 2011
11913 posts

re: WHIP doesn't include Hit by Pitch


Wild pitches aren't included either. It still a good stat though. Its not hard to add WP and HBPs to WHIP but its usually not going to be a big difference.


This post was edited on 4/7 at 9:33 am


Back to top
  Replies (0)
Baloo
LSU Fan
Formerly MDGeaux
Member since Sep 2003
44318 posts

re: WHIP doesn't include Hit by Pitch


Scouts look at walk rates. They look at K rates. They look at AVG allowed. They look, particularly, at K/BB ratio. They do not look at WHIP.

Hit rates for a prospect don't matter a whole lot because it's so reliant on defense, and you have no idea how good the defense is. HR rate is a much bigger indicator. Or GB/FB ratio.






Back to top
VerlanderBEAST
Auburn Fan
Member since Dec 2011
11913 posts

re: WHIP doesn't include Hit by Pitch


quote:

Scouts look at walk rates. They look at K rates. They look at AVG allowed. They look, particularly, at K/BB ratio. They do not look at WHIP.

Hit rates for a prospect don't matter a whole lot because it's so reliant on defense, and you have no idea how good the defense is. HR rate is a much bigger indicator. Or GB/FB ratio.


How often you put guys on base doesn't matter?






Back to top
  Replies (0)
PlanoPrivateer
LSU Fan
Frisco, TX
Member since Jan 2004
1397 posts

re: WHIP doesn't include Hit by Pitch


If you think of a hit by pitch in the same manner of a batter reaching because of an error then you may see why hit by pitch is not included. Think of it as an "error" (but not scored as an error) by the pitcher.






Back to top
  Replies (0)
MrWiseGuy
USA Fan
Member since Dec 2009
14565 posts

re: WHIP doesn't include Hit by Pitch


HBP's are not included, but intentional walks are.





Back to top
NOTORlOUSD
Georgia Tech Fan
Houston, TX
Member since Sep 2010
4691 posts

re: WHIP doesn't include Hit by Pitch


Should it include third strike wild pitches then too?


This post was edited on 4/7 at 9:34 am


Back to top
Bestbank Tiger
Ohio State Fan
Landmass
Member since Jan 2005
20717 posts

re: WHIP doesn't include Hit by Pitch


quote:

era are the biggies


ERA is a flawed stat too. Let's say the pitcher gets the first two batters and then someone makes an error. The pitcher then walks a couple of guys and gives up 5 hits in a row. All of those runs are "unearned" because they happened after what should have been the third out.






Back to top
FightinTigersDammit
Northwestern St. Fan
Farmerville LA
Member since Mar 2006
7559 posts

re: WHIP doesn't include Hit by Pitch


Yeah, this whole HBP/WHIP thing has been keeping me awake for years.





Back to top
  Replies (0)
Zach
LSU Fan
Member since May 2005
65786 posts

re: WHIP doesn't include Hit by Pitch


quote:

because the stat is walks plus hits per innings pitched?


HBP is a walk. The term walk covers two things:
hit by pitch
base on balls

The origin of the term 'walk' came from the idea that HBP and BB are the only two times where the batter actually walks to 1B instead of running.






Back to top
  Replies (0)
OBUDan
LSU Fan
Chicago
Member since Aug 2006
40382 posts

re: WHIP doesn't include Hit by Pitch


quote:

ERA is a flawed stat too. Let's say the pitcher gets the first two batters and then someone makes an error. The pitcher then walks a couple of guys and gives up 5 hits in a row. All of those runs are "unearned" because they happened after what should have been the third out.


Huh?






Back to top
  Replies (0)
Baloo
LSU Fan
Formerly MDGeaux
Member since Sep 2003
44318 posts

re: WHIP doesn't include Hit by Pitch


From a scouting standpoint, ERA isn't THAT important either. It matters, but not as much as we think. The peripherals matter more, as well as a guy's stuff.

Defense s just so unreliable at the lower levels of the minors. It's hard to hold the pitcher accountable for, say, that guy playing third base for the first time in his life because he's been shifted over due to organizational needs or a scout saw something in him to inspire a shift in position.






Back to top
  Replies (0)
motorbreath
New Orleans Saints Fan
Atlanta Braves Fan
Member since Jun 2004
4810 posts

re: WHIP doesn't include Hit by Pitch


quote:

This has to be the dumbest stat problem I've ever heard. Does anyone have a good explanation for why they wouldn't want hit batters to be included in walks plus hits per innings pitched?


this is just one stat. It's actually a very good predictive stat. If a guy had a low whip and a high ERA in the previous year he almost always has a better ERA the next year. And conversely, if a player had a high WHIP and low ERA the previous season he almost always has a worse ERA the next season.

also, there's another stat that does include the walks and HBP if that's your thing. Opponents OBP.



This post was edited on 4/7 at 10:53 am


Back to top
  Replies (0)


Back to top