Draft analysis - Trading back? | TigerDroppings.com

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cashflippa
LSU Fan
New Orleans
Member since Dec 2007
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Draft analysis - Trading back?


Saw this article posted to saintsreport.com yesterday and thought I'd share. Some good analysis on the saints options in the draft specifically trading back, something that I'm sure many would agree might not be a bad option.

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High C
LSU Fan
viewing the fall....
Member since Nov 2012
4580 posts

re: Draft analysis - Trading back?


I'd love that trade back scenario with Ogletree at 23, then Mathieu later. That would be the ideal for me, though I know many would disagree.





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bonethug0108
New Orleans Saints Fan
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Member since Mar 2013
3235 posts

re: Draft analysis - Trading back?


I have several issues with this article(like ILB being one of the bigger needs and Bushrod being a great mid round pick when he only ever played like a mid round pick) but I took the biggest issue with this:

"so drafting a proven OLB would be a priority"

NONE of these guys are proven. That's why you get so many busts every year, even the "can't miss" guys(like the recently relased McClain).

Edit:
This line in particular is full of fail:

"It is unlikely that Brodrick Bunkley will see a full-time starting role at NT if the Saints can improve by finding a player in the draft. Bunkley did perform well in the 3-4 at NT during his time in Denver as a great run stopper. The restructuring of his contract suggests he will stick around for a bit longer, but it is clear that he is not the answer, certainly not for every play at the very least."

Bunkley will be the starter(and play most of the snaps) unless Hicks plays as well as we think he can, but then he might replace Smith instead(he is slotted as Smith's backup). A draft pick won't replace him.

Broncos didn't run the 3-4 with him.

And Spags didn't even give this guy a chance(just like he held back Hicks, Wilson, and Galette) so we do not know that he is not the answer.

Edit2:
He completely forgot about Hawthorne. Holder just said the team doesn't feel like there's an opening at safety.

And to go back to oline talent, we found Evans and Nicks in the later rounds and that's it. Nicks was only there because of off the field issues but had first round talent. Bushrod was not great and Tennant and soon to be Brown are busts.

To keep saying that we can magically shite out an awesome mid to late round olineman because we ONCE drafted someone nobody knew about is absurd. If they knew Evans would be that good they would not have taken him that late.



This post was edited on 4/6 at 11:48 am


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Zoltan
New Orleans Saints Fan
BR
Member since May 2010
788 posts

re: Draft analysis - Trading back?


That's a pretty good article. It mirrors a decent bit of stuff that's been discussed here over the weeks but well put together. This is definitely the most volatile draft in years. Should be exciting no matter what. (:Defense CLAP CLAP:)





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LooseCannon22282
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
Mobile, AL
Member since May 2008
13396 posts
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re: Draft analysis - Trading back?


quote:

I have several issues with this article(like ILB being one of the bigger needs


I know we are set with the starters (Lofton, Hawthorne). But Vilma has had some real problems with his knees over the years. If something were to happen to Vilma, you would have Ramon Humber or Will Herring to replace him.

and what exactly do we have in David Hawthorne? He only started 10 games last year because of injury. And when he did play he was playing a position he wasn't used to. They had him at SAM when I think he was more of a WLB in Seattle(that may or may not be accurate though).

I mean I see why he would have questions for that position. And really, I think he was saying we should only address it if we were to trade down to #23. I like Ogletree but taking him at #15 would be a reach it seems like...






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Suntiger
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re: Draft analysis - Trading back?


We need to keep trading back and get about 10 fifth round draft picks. That's where you find great playmakers!





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bonethug0108
New Orleans Saints Fan
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Member since Mar 2013
3235 posts

re: Draft analysis - Trading back?


We also have Chamberlain. And Lofton and Hawthorne are young.

On Hawthorne, he was misused by Spags just like every player not named Jordan or Lofton. Wrong position and wrong scheme.

Hawthorne has shown plenty in Seattle and going back to a similar scheme(man) and similar position(WILB) he played there will have him doing fine.

He should also be over the injury that plagued him last year. When he played he was clearly our second best LB(not saying much though) in spite of not being fully healthy.

I also think we don't need yet another young, fast OLB because we have 3. We need a vet there.



This post was edited on 4/6 at 11:57 am


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Zoltan
New Orleans Saints Fan
BR
Member since May 2010
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re: Draft analysis - Trading back?


quote:

NONE of these guys are proven. That's why you get so many busts every year, even the "can't miss" guys(like the recently relased McClain


I agree with this and was thinking the same thing.. Maybe it was referring more to a full time role at the position. Either way I just want a stud first round pick this year


But
quote:

Broncos didn't run the 3-4 with him.


They did though and he played pretty well in it. They switched to a 4-3 later in the season, and he kinda fell off. Hopefully he's is an every down starter though. You're right about Spag's not giving people a chance though. Hicks tore it up in the Denver game coincidentally and still barely got his chances.


quote:

To keep saying that we can magically shite out an awesome mid to late round olineman because we ONCE drafted someone nobody knew about is absurd. If they knew Evans would be that good they would not have taken him that late.


That happens with every draft, you can't take a players current performance and say that he would have been drafted higher if they knew. Graham-3rd, Colston-7th, Pierre UDFA... Hell Arian Foster was undrafted. Gotta give a little credit to the front office for their hits as much as we bash their misses.






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bonethug0108
New Orleans Saints Fan
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Member since Mar 2013
3235 posts

re: Draft analysis - Trading back?


I knew they ran it some but not full time. When did they switch then?(Denver 3-4)

And my point about Evans isn't to take credit from the Saints. It's to stop all the stupid that we can pick an Evans any time we want.

It happened once.

Edit:
I'll also slack on my criticism of him saying Safety because we could use depth/competition.

And I'm not totally bashing the article because there are good points also. It's just that the bad points are really bad.



This post was edited on 4/6 at 12:06 pm


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LooseCannon22282
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
Mobile, AL
Member since May 2008
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re: Draft analysis - Trading back?


quote:

We also have Chamberlain.


well, wasn't he brought here because he was a Spagnuolo guy? I mean he could end up not being a fit in what Rob Ryan wants to do. But he hasn't be released so I guess they think he could be a sub package LB on passing downs

quote:

He should also be over the injury that plagued him last year. When he played he was clearly our second best LB(not saying much though) in spite of not being fully healthy.


yeah, hopefully he is good to go. When he wasn't in there, our linebackers weren't too good (outside of Lofton). Vilma made a few plays but Herring and Shanle didn't do a damn thing, no surprise there.

I just think if the right player is there, you take him. Vilma isn't going to be around much longer and we still need more speed at ILB. But that is just my opinion.



This post was edited on 4/6 at 12:09 pm


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Zoltan
New Orleans Saints Fan
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Member since May 2010
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re: Draft analysis - Trading back?


They ran it with him a decent bit through the first few games but got rid of it completely. I think it had to do with Tebow forcing them to hunker down hahaha. (sorry I always giggle when I think of Tebow playing qb). The thing is, this draft is down all around. A player like Joeckel isn't Jake Long, Jonathan Ogden, or Orlando Pace. He's just what's available and safe so he's mostly the consensus #1. No one knows what's gonna happen in this draft period, so with all the defensive depth, there's a good chance if we go tackle it won't be till a bit later because we're not gonna get one of the big 3, and Fluker.. no thank you. I feel that's kinda the sentiments of the article because if all the prospects everyone is discussing are gone at 15, who would you feel comfortable taking there without thinking it a reach? Especially if you can pick up a second rounder and still have a chance at someone who could be equally talented.


quote:

I'll also slack on my criticism of him saying Safety because we could use depth/competition


This I'm 100% in agreement. I mean we need to pay Jimmy next year and there's slim chance Harper will be given his money next year (which is a lot) over him. Harper was one of if not the worst Strong Safeties in the league last year. Get someone if you can, especially someone who can cover. I'm a Cyprien homer myself, just don't like the pick at 15.






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bonethug0108
New Orleans Saints Fan
Avondale
Member since Mar 2013
3235 posts

re: Draft analysis - Trading back?


quote:

so I guess they think he could be a sub package LB on passing downs


Bingo.

I just had a thought that if they only rush one OLB on a play on a passing down, he'd be a good person to put in at the other OLB to cover a TE, RB, or Slot Receiver.

Much safer than having Galette or Wilson cover. Not sure how well Butler covers.

quote:

blank isn't going to be around much longer and we still need more speed at blank


People are saying this about every defensive position. Smith, Harper, Jenkins, Greer, Vilma, etc. Somehow people are even saying it about OLB. For NT substitute speed with size.



This post was edited on 4/6 at 12:27 pm


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bonethug0108
New Orleans Saints Fan
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Member since Mar 2013
3235 posts

re: Draft analysis - Trading back?


The only thing I think will save Harper is if he plays well and they extend him next year.

If he does poorly he will be cut and he's not playing on that 1 year deal no matter how well he does, but I think there's a much better chance he'll play well and be extended.

Much greater concern at FS in my mind. IAQ started to come on but it was only a few games(how I feel about Morgan also; there's hope but not a sure thing),and Jenkins has talent but hasn't clicked yet.

I really think we'll avoid a first round safety this year and if need be draft one next year in the first or second.






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Zoltan
New Orleans Saints Fan
BR
Member since May 2010
788 posts

re: Draft analysis - Trading back?


The most important take away is how deep the draft is this year. The elite talent is deep, but most years the drop off occurs around 45-50, this year it will go to about 70, which is why a second rounder would be so crucial for us. IAQ played well, but yeah I feel the same way about the uncertainty, so I think it would be a good approach for SP to just tell Ryan tell me what you need/want and let's go get it. The longer we wait on accumulating talent, the more Drew ages, so I think now is the time to move.





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LooseCannon22282
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
Mobile, AL
Member since May 2008
13396 posts
 Online 

re: Draft analysis - Trading back?


quote:

Much safer than having Galette or Wilson cover. Not sure how well Butler covers.


yeah, I would guess so but I haven't really seen this guy(Chamberlain) play before.

Ogletree looks like a long shot if we stay put at #15. The Saints did work him out though, so I guess they are obviously somewhat interested. Picking him up would improve our team speed tremendously.

last year, when the Saints brought in Lofton and Hawthorne it was refreshing to see them upgrade the position. I think a player like Ogletree would solidify our LB corps. It may not be the most dire need on the team but stock piling at a position that has really been lacking the past few seasons would be nice.







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THRILLHO
New Orleans Saints Fan
New Orleans, LA
Member since Apr 2006
32796 posts

re: Draft analysis - Trading back?


quote:

But he hasn't be released so I guess they think he could be a sub package LB on passing downs


I don't know if Chamberlain will be that guy, but the thing many people are getting caught up in the whole 3-4 change and forgetting that we're very frequently going to be in 4-2-5 or 4-1-6 alignments, and I think Hawthorne and Lofton are going to be the guys on the field in that situation. Ogletree would be a nice player but he may very well play under 50% of our defensive plays vs. a S, LT, or OLB that they like playing with a hand down, who would be out there a lot more frequently.






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SammyTiger
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge, LA
Member since Feb 2009
8698 posts

re: Draft analysis - Trading back?


quote:

I'd love that trade back scenario with Ogletree at 23, then Mathieu later. That would be the ideal for me, though I know many would disagree.



What are you trying to draft an All Character Issues team?






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High C
LSU Fan
viewing the fall....
Member since Nov 2012
4580 posts

re: Draft analysis - Trading back?


The reason for the second sentence, Sammy. People always tell me that I give people too much credit.





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SammyTiger
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge, LA
Member since Feb 2009
8698 posts

re: Draft analysis - Trading back?


I get that but you don't draft all of them. I liek your style though, but of a gambler.





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bonethug0108
New Orleans Saints Fan
Avondale
Member since Mar 2013
3235 posts

re: Draft analysis - Trading back?


Looking at some video of the Dallas D and what I remember from our last few games, he actually runs more 3-3-5 and 3-2-6(well maybe about equal with this one and traditional dime) from what I can tell. Can't say I saw 4-2-5(traditional nickel) much at all.

3-4 and 3-3-5 seem to be the ones run the most, and really it's more like a 3-5-3 and a 3-4-4 because the SS is in the box a lot.

Watching his schemes has me excited about what he can do with Harper. On the flip side a lot more pressure is put on the FS.



This post was edited on 4/6 at 6:16 pm


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