Free Agency Ain't Done | Page 3 | TigerDroppings.com

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bonethug0108
New Orleans Saints Fan
Avondale
Member since Mar 2013
4760 posts

re: Free Agency Ain't Done


quote:

And I don't expect Woodson to be Sharper, but he is a freaking pro and would be the qb for our secondary. I doubt we'd see guys way out of position.


I guess that last point could be valid. It's definitely on one of the safeties to help with that and I'm not sure Jenkins or Harper have been doing a good job at that.

My issue was just the fact that many are comparing him to Sharper and I don't think he could have that impact(not to mention that seemed to be Sharper's best year ever).

@ blues, My problem with getting a second tier LT is that those guys are a lot more erratic than the tier ones are. I want to see a true stud there, not someone we have to hope develops.

And honestly who could we pick at 15 that would come in and be a definite starter?

Any OLB would have to first adapt to the NFL and then beat out 3 guys that are young and fast. We have 3 proven starters at ILB already.

Maybe someone at FS could challenge Jenkins and IAQ but I don't see them beating out Harper at SS. No corners are going to be more than a NB for us.

Maybe a NT could push Bunkley for reps, but we have a few young guys already to compete there and at DE.

Maybe a WR could come in and beat Morgan and Toon for the 2nd outside receiver spot(Moore being our slot guy). No TE, RB, QB, OG, or C will be starters.

LT is the only clear position where we have no starter and honestly no body there at all.

So we could go with a maybe at OLB, FS, NT, or WR or a definite at LT.

Payton even specifically said we have 2 musts(greater than needs) which were LT and backup QB(which we addressed), and said 2 things kept him up at night: who'll protect the blindside and who'll rush the passer.

Well we have Wilson, Butler, and Galette at OLB and Hicks, Smith, Jordan, Coleman, and Bunkley on the line(along with some other young guys) to rush the passer. We still have no one to protect the blindside.

And sure we can get a vet and TRY to develop someone, but this may be the only year we are around the top half of the draft where all the top LTs are taken. It's much easier to move up 5 spots to 10 from 15 than it is to do the same from 28-32.

This is why I'm sure if 2 of the 3 top LTs are selected before 10 we will try our damnedest to jump the Chargers and get that 3rd one. That's the way Payton operates. If all 3 are gone before 10 then we are SOL I think and then would go bpa at one of the other positions(I'm highly doubting a trade back; there is no evidence for this while there is plenty to say it won't happen).



This post was edited on 4/4 at 9:31 pm


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bonethug0108
New Orleans Saints Fan
Avondale
Member since Mar 2013
4760 posts

re: Free Agency Ain't Done


Looking through each list there isn't much there that I think would be enough of an upgrade to even bother with. Anyone we get would have to come in for vet minimum.

No one at corner or safety seem to be better than just drafting someone except maybe Woodson with his experience. Could push Jenkins and IAQ for the starting job.

Seymour is the only DT/DE I see fitting our scheme. He played DE and DT in New England's 3-4, and him and Rob Ryan(LB coach) spent 2 years together there. The other guys are space eaters(not a scheme fit) or not better than the young guys we have.

Shaun Phillips is the only OLB that stands out to me. Even if he can't start he could help teach our young guys(if he's that type of guy).

As before I'd take any FA LT at this point.

And for WR I only see Henderson or Moss coming here to give experience at the burner spot. The other guys I either don't see taking vet minimum or aren't worth signing.



This post was edited on 4/4 at 9:49 pm


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THRILLHO
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
New Orleans, LA
Member since Apr 2006
34567 posts

re: Free Agency Ain't Done


quote:

This is why I'm sure if 2 of the 3 top LTs are selected before 10 we will try our damnedest to jump the Chargers and get that 3rd one.


Charley Casserly mentioned this on an NFLN Saints draft preview, and I think I'm OK with it. I think that may put us into a position where we have to start trading down in future drafts to stockpile cheaper talent, but if you think you can get a legit LT for 4/$12m + a 5th year ~$7m option, then that's easily worth a third IMO. That's assuming they feel there's as big a difference between the likes of Johnson and Watson/Armstead as I do. Joeckel and Fisher only look marginally better than Johnson and they've been playing the position for longer. I'd jump on Johnson (LOL) even if we signed McKinnie prior. Bryant/Evans/DLP/Grubbs/LJ would probably be the best line Brees has ever had while you let Johnson get his feet wet at RT.

And while it would suck giving up a 3rd rounder in such a deep safety class (IMO our second biggest need), this was also a loaded S class in free agency and there are a lot of guys that would be a good, cheap one year stopgap. Would like to see Jenkins have to earn the job over someone better than Quddus.



This post was edited on 4/4 at 9:52 pm


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SSHellfighter
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Jan 2013
836 posts

re: Free Agency Ain't Done


quote:

Any OLB would have to first adapt to the NFL and then beat out 3 guys that are young and fast. We have 3 proven starters at ILB already.



Bonethug, you don't think Jones, Jordan, Star, or Mingo would earn a starting spot and make a difference by the middle of the year?






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bonethug0108
New Orleans Saints Fan
Avondale
Member since Mar 2013
4760 posts

re: Free Agency Ain't Done


quote:

Bonethug, you don't think Jones, Jordan, Star, or Mingo would earn a starting spot and make a difference by the middle of the year?


Possible yes. Definite no.

Galette, Wilson, and Butler are all very young, hungry for the big payday, and very fast. They have NFL experience and that's not to be underestimated.

Some guys just can't adjust even when EVERYONE thought they were surefire picks.

It is much more likely that a top 3 LT would definitely make an impact from game 1 through the rest of his career.

I'm taking the 90% thing over the 50% thing every time.






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blueslover
New Orleans Saints Fan
soon to be south of zero
Member since Sep 2007
20898 posts

re: Free Agency Ain't Done


quote:

If all 3 are gone before 10 then we are SOL

the latest I can see one of the top 3 OTs lasting is to #7, so SOL.

Jumping to #10 would cost at #75 & #144 (5th) at minimum. The strength of this draft class is going down from #15. Not a great deal of diff between many players from #20 to #50 on big boards.

Maybe every name I listed for #75 hope could compete with Brown. That kinda a guy, Brown, & some crusty vet is where I think they'll end up at LT. Bryce Harris who went IR also might compete at LT.
quote:

And honestly who could we pick at 15 that would come in and be a definite starter? Any OLB would have to first adapt to the NFL and then beat out 3 guys that are young and fast.

I think Jones would hands down be a starter.

Two guys that have never played the position before and one that has 3 starts in 4 years is not quite enough for me to hang my hat on (and I like them all). A Jones or Mingo would not only bring perhaps the best skills of them all but just the plain competition would make them all better. We're kinda headed into 3-4 from scratch here. The more talent honed particularly for that the better.







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bonethug0108
New Orleans Saints Fan
Avondale
Member since Mar 2013
4760 posts

re: Free Agency Ain't Done


quote:

And while it would suck giving up a 3rd rounder in such a deep safety class (IMO our second biggest need), this was also a loaded S class in free agency and there are a lot of guys that would be a good, cheap one year stopgap. Would like to see Jenkins have to earn the job over someone better than Quddus.


We could do what we have done in the past and flip an earlier round next year for a later round this year if a guy we love is there. They've done this a good bit and it shows Payton's draft style.

Sure it sucks next year, but when it works it's worth it(Morstead for instance).

And I agree that we need to get someone to compete at FS, whether that be a vet or draft pick. If we miss in the draft we can try for a vet.






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bonethug0108
New Orleans Saints Fan
Avondale
Member since Mar 2013
4760 posts

re: Free Agency Ain't Done


Brown and Harris are not LTs and I don't see them there even to compete.

As I said before, Marcel Jones would be the one that would get a shot there but you still need a vet if you aren't getting a top 3 LT in the draft.

And I know people are starting to say all 3 will go by 7 but I think most of that is smoke screen. Happens every year and I think there's a good chance someone is going to take a QB in that first 7 despite what's going on.

Palmer is not a long term solution for the Cards and the Jags, Raiders, Eagles, Browns, Bills, Jets, and Titans certainly don't have a franchise QB. So far the only "guarantee" is the Chiefs taking Loeckel. It just depends on who is taking the QB.

But I'm sure they are preparing for any situation and I wouldn't be surprised if the jumped to 6th if need be, just see it as unlikely.

And I don't care how talented a guy is. Anyone remember JaMarcus Russell? It's more about how they adapt and the point is LB is a position that seems to have a much harsher adaption rate. We have 3 young, talented guys that have made that adaptation.






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Laaz2750
New Orleans Saints Fan
Los Angeles
Member since Aug 2008
2246 posts

re: Free Agency Ain't Done


quote:

Imagine Brees with the middle and his blindside completely covered. It would have way more impact than another "cross your fingers he'll be good" OLB that we have 3 of already(Butler, Wilson, and Galette).



Oh holy crap, THIS... he's so accurate there comes a point where if you can protect him long enough you hardly even need to field a running back.






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SSHellfighter
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Jan 2013
836 posts

re: Free Agency Ain't Done


I agree with you about the QB. Someone will take a QB early. I just don't think one of the top 3 LTs will be there at 15.








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bonethug0108
New Orleans Saints Fan
Avondale
Member since Mar 2013
4760 posts

re: Free Agency Ain't Done


quote:

I just don't think one of the top 3 LTs will be there at 15.


At 15 no. That's why I'm thinking they may trade up to 10.

But I will say no one saw the Meachem or PRob picks coming so you never know what they'll actually do.



This post was edited on 4/4 at 10:53 pm


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blueslover
New Orleans Saints Fan
soon to be south of zero
Member since Sep 2007
20898 posts

re: Free Agency Ain't Done


quote:

no one saw the Meachem or PRob picks coming so you never know what they'll actually do.

The intrigue and anticipation is what has made mock drafting a cottage industry though. Secondly, the higher a team drafts, the clearer the choices are. PRob & Meachem were #32 & #27. Pre-draft in '09 at #14 I would have put high odds that Jenkins or Brian Cushing would have been the picks. He was and Cushing was the next one. This year ya don't have to be some mock guru to work out the odds of Mingo or Jarvis Jones being around at #15.
quote:

Brown and Harris are not LTs and I don't see them there even to compete.

We shall see. Brown hasn't earned my trust but he wasn't drafted at #64 (and was projected higher) to compete with Strief at RT. Injuries have been a bigger story with him than his failure to perform. Jones would be a dlP kinda story. Injury problems was the big reason he was as low as 7th Rd too. Of course he kept that intact going IR. Harris was a college LT, just sayin.






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bonethug0108
New Orleans Saints Fan
Avondale
Member since Mar 2013
4760 posts

re: Free Agency Ain't Done


Brown has barely shown to be a competent RT the few times he's been healthy, that's why I'm sure he won't be the answer at LT. Maybe I overstated when I said Harris won't compete, but he won't win the job.

I still think we are waiting on a vet LT to agree to the minimum and we will draft one at some point and they will compete with Jones. I think Harris, Brown, and Strief will compete at RT.

And if Strief loses out maybe we cut him and save $2 mil. Or if Brown gets injured in preseason I see him either cut or on IR. I believe Harris will be the backup to whoever wins the job.

As for Meach and PRob I meant more of not getting a perceived need to go with bpa instead of literally taking who they thought was bpa (clearly they weren't).

Then again if we don't go LT in the first I'm not expecting much from the pick. Jordan seems to be the only pick in years that may be fully worthy of being called first round talent.



This post was edited on 4/5 at 8:22 am


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Patrick O Rly
New Orleans Saints Fan
y u do dis?
Member since Aug 2011
38223 posts

re: Free Agency Ain't Done


quote:

Brown has barely shown to be a competent RT the few times he's been healthy, that's why I'm sure he won't be the answer at LT


I thought he played pretty damn good last year, and I think LT would fit his skill set (pass blocking) better. He's not really the mauler in the run game. To me it's all about his health. I have no doubt he could play well.







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bonethug0108
New Orleans Saints Fan
Avondale
Member since Mar 2013
4760 posts

re: Free Agency Ain't Done


Wanted to add to blues that I'm sure they wanted him to be a LT just as they wanted PRob to start and Ingram to be a beast, but sometimes players fail to meet expectations. Remember Ellis? So you adjust your plan and put them where you think they can succeed. In Ellis' case that is at home on the couch.

And yeah he showed a little something in the brief time he was in at RT, but last time he was at LT he was worse than Bushrod.



This post was edited on 4/5 at 11:59 am


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Patrick O Rly
New Orleans Saints Fan
y u do dis?
Member since Aug 2011
38223 posts

re: Free Agency Ain't Done


quote:

And yeah he showed a little something in the brief time he was in at RT, but last time he was at LT he was worse than Bushrod.


When was that?






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mm2316
New Orleans Saints Fan
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
Member since Aug 2010
4870 posts

re: Free Agency Ain't Done


quote:

And if Strief loses out maybe we cut him and save $2 mil.

I've been beating the "cut Strief" drum for a while now.






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EarthwormJim
LSU Fan
Member since Dec 2005
9773 posts

re: Free Agency Ain't Done


quote:

Some guys just can't adjust even when EVERYONE thought they were surefire picks.

It is much more likely that a top 3 LT would definitely make an impact from game 1 through the rest of his career.

I'm taking the 90% thing over the 50% thing every time.


Since when did LTs have a lower bust rate than pass rushers?






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blueslover
New Orleans Saints Fan
soon to be south of zero
Member since Sep 2007
20898 posts

re: Free Agency Ain't Done


You can also bring in the whole "Saints do their offensive line different" conversation into play also. No team puts money in the middle line like the Saints. There's only so many cap dollars to spread around. The Saints have 9% of the cap devoted to guards. Next year that almost doubles.

Even Walter Football notes- Sources told Charlie Campbell the Saints don't put much value into the offensive tackle position, so they likely won't pursue someone like Lane Johnson at No. 15 overall. LINK






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ERIMSEW
New Orleans Saints Fan
Member since Feb 2013
54 posts

re: Free Agency Ain't Done


can we bring in Ramses Barden to fill the A. Arrington role.





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