Bitcoin will ruin people | Page 5 | TigerDroppings.com
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Tiger n Miami AU83
Auburn Fan
Miami
Member since Oct 2007
37160 posts

re: Bitcoin will ruin people

I looked as well early in the week. There aren't any. If tradesports was still around, they would have a market for it, but they aren't so it is both a lost cause and not worth the hassle.


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LSURussian
LSU Fan
Member since Feb 2005
85143 posts

re: Bitcoin will ruin people
quote:

but i'd imagine that it would have been found by now

Why would you believe that when hackers uncover previously undiscovered weaknesses in internet systems that have been in use for years? Even "open" systems.

Wasn't it the "stuxnet" virus which was placed inside servers and computers for almost a decade before the authors "activated" it all at once?


Tigershatebama
LSU Fan
New Orleans
Member since Feb 2006
141 posts

re: Bitcoin will ruin people
quote:

if they sell off the BTC to take advantage of the market prices, the market prices will increase


This is where you mess up. The prices go down. Your whole position on BTC is flawed due to this pretty basic economic element.


WikiTiger
LSU Fan
Member since Sep 2007
40721 posts

re: Bitcoin will ruin people
quote:

it's very possible, but i'd imagine that it would have been found by now. a bunch of hackers have examined the code and none have found these weaknesses. it's always possible they all missed something, though

i'll put it this way. this is the currency of hackers. they wouldn't be messing with it if the code was exploitable within their means, because they'd be putting their "stash" at risk, too. see what i mean?



Most of these comments about bitcoin being hacked come from a fundamental misunderstanding of the entire system.


Bitcoin is simply a transaction ledger (aka the blockchain).

To make a transaction, a person uses a cryptographic key to "sign" a transaction, which verifies it is them.

This cryptographic technology is extremely strong, and is used very widely in many industries and governments throughout the world. Ever used a credit card? Then you've used the same kind of technology.

And then, what people fail to understand or accept (despite me posting this a hundred times already) is that bitcoin can be changed, and has been. But it only results in a fork of the blockchain. If a person creates a new blockchain and no one else values it, then it's worthless.
This post was edited on 3/29 at 9:48 pm


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SlowFlowPro
Stanford Fan
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
306772 posts

re: Bitcoin will ruin people
quote:

Why would you believe that when hackers uncover previously undiscovered weaknesses in internet systems that have been in use for years? Even "open" systems.

because these hackers have a vested, personal interest in the system. it's not like "hackers" are one group

quote:

Wasn't it the "stuxnet" virus which was placed inside servers and computers for almost a decade before the authors "activated" it all at once?

that's the iranian nuke virus

i know which one you're talking about though. i don't think it was ever activated

but there are a ton of "slave" viruses like that oe going on right now. again, the access point was the entry into the PC. it's not the same thing with bitcoin. people don't "login" to the actual BTC servers/exchange i don't think

now, can your "wallet" have access issues that allow it to be hacked? certainly...the same as any computer/phone


SlowFlowPro
Stanford Fan
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
306772 posts

re: Bitcoin will ruin people
quote:

This is where you mess up. The prices go down.


you're the one who said

quote:

if the hoarders tried to sell off all of their BTC at once the value would inflate.


if the early adopters lose value when they start selling, then the price of BTC goes down as more hit the market,. sounds like every other currency/exchange known to man

just so you know, the "price" of BTC is whatever we accept it to be
This post was edited on 3/29 at 9:51 pm


Tigershatebama
LSU Fan
New Orleans
Member since Feb 2006
141 posts

re: Bitcoin will ruin people
And???


SlowFlowPro
Stanford Fan
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
306772 posts

re: Bitcoin will ruin people
quote:

And???

every method of exchange has the same issues

what do you think happens when gold starts getting sold

all you're describing is a possible bubble. those have existed since money was traded


Tigershatebama
LSU Fan
New Orleans
Member since Feb 2006
141 posts

re: Bitcoin will ruin people
quote:

This is where you mess up. The prices go down.



you're the one who said

quote:
if the hoarders tried to sell off all of their BTC at once the value would inflate.


That's the same thing man... The price of BTC goes down, therefore it's purchasing power goes down which is another way of saying inflation.


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LSURussian
LSU Fan
Member since Feb 2005
85143 posts

re: Bitcoin will ruin people
quote:

and they're the biggest users as of now

Yes, they are.

Earlier today I tried to find out the volume of commercial transactions using bitcoins as the currency. (Not currency transactions but actually using bitcoins to purchase products and services annually.)

I couldn't find those stats, but I did find two news articles which claimed that Silk Road website is the largest merchant and most of its sales involved drug and sex trafficking. The second largest "merchant" in bitcoin sales volume is a gambling website that skirts gambling laws.

Combined those two sites had dollar equivalent bitcoin "sales" revenues of less than $27 million in 2012. That's less than the sales volume of an average Wal-Mart store. Not exactly impressive revenue numbers for an "industry" bragging about having a market cap of $1 billion.


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dewster
Vanderbilt Fan
Member since Aug 2006
9787 posts

re: Bitcoin will ruin people
That's why bitcoin won't make it as a currency.

Currency can be anything really, but the use of it is pretty much standard. That is where Bitcoin fails. Currency isn't going to reward early adopters for no good or service. It won't work.

I agree with that part of your argument. If not adopted by the masses, then it might as well be your run of the mill equity...but tied to absolutely nothing. Even that can be traded if people see it as some sort of currency.

I am not sure I can wrap my head around the Ponzi Scheme argument though.
This post was edited on 3/29 at 10:09 pm


WikiTiger
LSU Fan
Member since Sep 2007
40721 posts

re: Bitcoin will ruin people
quote:

Currency isn't going to reward early adopters for no good or service.


They did provide a good and service. They utilized their hardware, skill, time and money to build the network. That has value to many.


LSURussian
LSU Fan
Member since Feb 2005
85143 posts

re: Bitcoin will ruin people
quote:

that's the iranian nuke virus

Correct, that was the one that computer geeks all over the world knew existed for 5 years or longer but could never figure out what it was intended to do until one day it was "activated" (suspected to have been done by the CIA) and it started disabling computer based industrial equipment everywhere including the computer programs driving the uranium enrichment centerfuges in Iran.

ETA:
quote:

i don't think it was ever activated

Yes, it was. 60 Minutes did an entire program on it after it was activated a couple of years ago.

My point stands. Very smart computer geeks everywhere can be fooled by even smarter computer geeks who are highly motivated.

I don't know if that is the case regarding the BC developers but I would not rule it out.
This post was edited on 3/29 at 10:12 pm


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Tigershatebama
LSU Fan
New Orleans
Member since Feb 2006
141 posts

re: Bitcoin will ruin people
quote:

what do you think happens when gold starts getting sold


The price goes down
quote:

all you're describing is a possible bubble



You can keep calling it a market and see others as holding it for investment, but that is not the intent stated by Bitcoiners. It is put forth as an alternative to government backed currencies.

Reality however is that it is being used as strictly investment. The only way that it continues to be a form of investment is if it can be useful as a currency. It cannot become useful as a currency because it has flaws.

I'm not proposing that a digital currency would not be useful or better than our current system. I just propose that Bitcoin is not the answer. Those that have "invested" into it, need to get out while it still has value. Eventually people will lose money because the early adopters will start to sell off to cash in.


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Tigershatebama
LSU Fan
New Orleans
Member since Feb 2006
141 posts

re: Bitcoin will ruin people
I'm not trying to come off as confrontational here so don't take it that way.

quote:

That's why bitcoin won't make it as a currency.


So what you're saying is that BTC will not work. You and I realize that there is no value but others think that there is.

quote:

I am not sure I can wrap my head around the Ponzi Scheme argument though.


There are Bitcoiners out there 'recruiting' buyers. Essentially you have people buying worthless BTC.

A Ponzi works by selling investments that have no value other than more people buying them and the seller keeping the money.

When it comes to early adopters, they have the potential to sell greater numbers of these worthless BTC. When the masses realize that there is no value they'll stop is buying BTC. At this point there is no market to sell so all BTC in existence are worthless(even the BTC hoarded by the early adopters). However, those early adopters that did sell even a fraction of their BTC will have made money.

The worst part though is that we don't know who is at the top of this whole scheme to try to recoup any of the real money.


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Tigershatebama
LSU Fan
New Orleans
Member since Feb 2006
141 posts

re: Bitcoin will ruin people
BTW Wiki do you get automatic texts when someone mentions Bitcoin?


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MaroonWhite
Mississippi St. Fan
They see us grindin, they hatin
Member since Oct 2012
1646 posts

re: Bitcoin will ruin people
All speculative bubbles eventually collapse.

bitcoins == Tulip Bulbs


gizmoflak
Georgetown Fan
Member since May 2007
9251 posts

re: Bitcoin will ruin people
I love lurking in these crazy bitcoin threads. Great entertainment value...


I think bitcoins will end up being one of the greatest innovations ever known to man or the widest-scale fraud ever perpetuated on man. I really don't see a middle ground in this


The concept of an anonymous P2P currency intrigues me, but what I want to know is:

(1) when the capitalization level of bitcoins reaches a significant level (whatever that may be --- 10B, 100B, 1T ... ), and tax-hungry national governments start to feel like a large amount of tax money is slipping away, won't they shut it all down? I have to believe it is within the U.S. government's power to effectively squash 99% of all bitcoin transactions by U.S. citizens.

(2) What happens when a group of hackers who are more skilled, more motivated, and more resourceful than the bitcoin do-gooders decides to take down the bitcoin infrastructure? Surely, no one believes this isn't impossible. I tend to think it is inevitable...



CCT
LSU Fan
LA
Member since Dec 2006
3988 posts

re: Bitcoin will ruin people
Wiki, do you have a mining rig..or two, or three?

I almost built one last year, just for the hell of it to see what would come of it.
This post was edited on 3/29 at 11:34 pm


WikiTiger
LSU Fan
Member since Sep 2007
40721 posts

re: Bitcoin will ruin people
don't have time to reply thoroughly to your post, but watch this video. your first question is discussed in detail in it

LINK
This post was edited on 3/29 at 11:39 pm


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