Mainieri: Stevenson in CF is "fairly permanent" - Page 4 - TigerDroppings.com

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therick711
USA Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Jan 2008
7613 posts

re: Mainieri: Stevenson in CF is "fairly permanent"


quote:

I don't understand why last season is so important to your analysis. It's not like we are a week into the 2013 season... We are halfway through.


Because the 3-4-5 was set from game one and to my mind it hasn't changed all season. Do you think the analysis was based on something other than 2012 production re: the brick layer and Raph?






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cafeaulait19
LSU Fan
Houston, Texas
Member since Jul 2012
303 posts

re: Mainieri: Stevenson in CF is "fairly permanent"


Guess I'm not seeing a big trade off in Stevenson for Sciambra - in more than twice as many at-bats, sciambra has a better avg and higher obp, and seems to usually make the pitcher really work. Stevenson looks really fast in center, but it also seems like its because he's running all over the place to find the ball.

Good to have options though!






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therick711
USA Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Jan 2008
7613 posts

re: Mainieri: Stevenson in CF is "fairly permanent"


quote:

I'm actually interested to know what the dropoff in plate appearances is as you go down the lineup.


LINK

This will help illustrate it. Obviously we know that injuries and lineup changes affected these numbers, but you can see based on where everyone hit last year how it ends up being distributed. Also, marvel at the Arbitron 5000 (Arby Fields) and his ability to ground into double plays with the mechanical precision of an android.



This post was edited on 3/28 at 4:12 pm


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SouthOfSouth
USA Fan
South of I-10 till I die
Member since Jun 2008
31007 posts

re: Mainieri: Stevenson in CF is "fairly permanent"


quote:

Do you think the analysis was based on something other than 2012 production re: the brick layer and Raph?


You used the fact that last season Katz struck out 4x as many times to back up your reasoning, when Katz has really improved his plate awareness and patience. They have struck out the exact same amount of times this season so using a strikeout total from last year makes very little sense to me.






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redfieldk717
Southeastern LA Fan
Boxtardistan
Member since Oct 2011
20824 posts

re: Mainieri: Stevenson in CF is "fairly permanent"


quote:

I'm actually interested to know what the dropoff in plate appearances is as you go down the lineup.


bregman, rhymes, laird then katz in that order and thats with laird not playing in a mid week game






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Captain Ron
Hawaii Fan
Location: Ted's
Member since Dec 2012
3815 posts

re: Mainieri: Stevenson in CF is "fairly permanent"


quote:

They have struck out the exact same amount of times this season so using a strikeout total from last year makes very little sense to me.


Especially when Raph is right at his SO number from last season and we are not even half-way through the regular season.






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therick711
USA Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Jan 2008
7613 posts

re: Mainieri: Stevenson in CF is "fairly permanent"


quote:

You used the fact that last season Katz struck out 4x as many times to back up your reasoning, when Katz has really improved his plate awareness and patience. They have struck out the exact same amount of times this season so using a strikeout total from last year makes very little sense to me.


Again, the lineup has not deviated from this since game one. It was obviously based on something. Do you think it is more likely that it was based on their historical production or that he was just guessing on how to put the lineup together?






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ProjectP2294
Miami (OH) Fan
St Louis County
Member since May 2007
31096 posts

re: Mainieri: Stevenson in CF is "fairly permanent"


quote:

This will help illustrate it.


It kind of does, but really I'd have to pore over every box score from last season (and for better results, more than that) to get the numbers I'm really looking for.

I might check the filing cabinet on Boyds World. He may already have those numbers. I'm looking more for general averages than what we did specifically.






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redfieldk717
Southeastern LA Fan
Boxtardistan
Member since Oct 2011
20824 posts

re: Mainieri: Stevenson in CF is "fairly permanent"


quote:

Again, the lineup has not deviated from this since game one. It was obviously based on something. Do you think it is more likely that it was based on their historical production or that he was just guessing on how to put the lineup together?


i dontthink a coach gives a shite abou what they did last season..its all about practice and fall ball






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SouthOfSouth
USA Fan
South of I-10 till I die
Member since Jun 2008
31007 posts

re: Mainieri: Stevenson in CF is "fairly permanent"


quote:

Again, the lineup has not deviated from this since game one. It was obviously based on something. Do you think it is more likely that it was based on their historical production or that he was just guessing on how to put the lineup together?


You think Katz strikes out less because he is batting 5th????? I don't understand how this has anything to so with using old stats to show why Rhymes is better at 4th...



This post was edited on 3/28 at 4:19 pm


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therick711
USA Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Jan 2008
7613 posts

re: Mainieri: Stevenson in CF is "fairly permanent"


I actually think someone has made a distribution chart where each position is constant. I can't seem to find it for you at this time.





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redfieldk717
Southeastern LA Fan
Boxtardistan
Member since Oct 2011
20824 posts

re: Mainieri: Stevenson in CF is "fairly permanent"


quote:

It kind of does, but really I'd have to pore over every box score from last season (and for better results, more than that) to get the numbers I'm really looking for.


LINK






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redfieldk717
Southeastern LA Fan
Boxtardistan
Member since Oct 2011
20824 posts

re: Mainieri: Stevenson in CF is "fairly permanent"


Player avg gp-gs ab r h 2b 3b hr rbi tb slg% bb hbp so gdp ob% sf sh sb-att po a e
Alex Bregman .443 25-25 106 29 47 8 2 2 23 65 .613 12 0 7 4 .496 1 0 7-7 24 69 6 .939
Mason Katz .396 25-25 91 24 36 6 1 10 41 74 .813 16 3 12 3 .495 1 0 1-5 216 10 2 .991
Mark Laird .359 24-24 92 26 33 3 0 0 7 36 .391 13 1 7 2 .443 0 5 2-4 56 0 0 1.000
Raph Rhymes .354 25-25 96 22 34 6 0 1 21 43 .448 12 2 12 2 .429 2 0 1-1 30 0 0 1.000
Christian Ibarra .342 25-24 79 9 27 5 0 1 17 35 .443 16 2 14 1 .455 2 1 0-1 18 45 5 .926
Chris Sciambra .262 23-18 65 15 17 5 0 0 1 22 .338 16 4 16 3 .435 0 3 2-2 36 1 1 .974
Ty Ross .203 24-23 74 9 15 0 0 2 9 21 .284 8 1 12 2 .286 1 2 1-1 174 25 0 1.000
JaCoby Jones .202 25-25 84 17 17 3 0 2 10 26 .310 21 2 18 1 .367 2 0 9-11 52 63 3 .975
----------
Jared Foster .429 14-2 14 7 6 1 0 1 2 10 .714 0 2 3 0 .500 0 0 1-1 4 1 0 1.000
Casey Yocom .333 8-0 6 2 2 0 0 0 1 2 .333 1 0 0 0 .429 0 0 0-0 0 1 0 1.000
Tyler Moore .275 18-10 40 5 11 4 1 0 6 17 .425 1 0 0 0 .293 0 1 0-0 8 1 1 .900
Andrew Stevenson .241 16-7 29 10 7 0 0 1 5 10 .345 1 3 6 0 .333 0 3 2-2 25 0 0 1.000
Chris Chinea .231 16-5 26 2 6 2 0 0 5 8 .308 4 1 0 1 .344 1 0 0-0 18 2 1 .952
Sean McMullen .222 13-4 27 1 6 2 0 0 5 8 .296 3 0 2 0 .290 1 0 0-1 4 0 0 1.000
Michael Barash .182 9-2 11 2 2 0 0 0 1 2 .182 1 1 1 0 .308 0 0 0-0 7 1 0 1.000
Alex Edward .174 14-6 23 0 4 1 0 0 3 5 .217 0 0 2 1 .174 0 1 0-0 3 0 0 1.000
Totals .313 25-25 863 180 270 46 4 20 157 384 .445 125 22 112 20 .408 11 16 26-36 684 259 20 .979
Opponents .223 25-25 825 72 184 35 1 5 65 236 .286 60 28 206 24 .296 6 13 15-22 634 249 40 .957



This post was edited on 3/28 at 4:21 pm


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therick711
USA Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Jan 2008
7613 posts

re: Mainieri: Stevenson in CF is "fairly permanent"


quote:

You think Katz strikes out less because he is batting 5th?????


You are moving the target on me. That isn't what I have said or argued at any point. Let's try one more time.

THE LINEUP AS TO 3-4-5 HAS BEEN THE SAME SINCE GAME 1.
IT IS MORE LIKELY THAN NOT THAT THIS COMBINATION WAS MADE CONSIDERING WHAT THE PLAYERS DID IN 2012 AS THE BASIS.
GIVEN THAT PREMISE, MY CONCLUSION IS THAT BECAUSE KATZ WAS FOUR TIMES MORE LIKELY TO STRIKEOUT LAST YEAR, THAT FACT FACTORED INTO HIM HITTING FIFTH TO START THE YEAR THIS YEAR.

We back on the same page, SoS?



This post was edited on 3/28 at 4:22 pm


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LSU GrandDad
LSU Fan
houston, texas
Member since Jun 2009
11361 posts

re: Mainieri: Stevenson in CF is "fairly permanent"


quote:

A hundred years of history tells you to put your best power hitter at 4... If CPM knows better that's fine, but just saying.


um no. each team, in college, is different and often a little different approach is better. the pro's are more cookie cutter. and having a DH changes traditional thinking some. the 4 hole hitter is the guy that is supposed to knock in the lead off and #2 guy who is suppossed to get on base but no power. yet, with the DH, the #3 and #5 hole hitter come into play big time. even in the pro's there are some huge power hitters in those two spots. line-ups are not as cut and dried like they used to be.






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redfieldk717
Southeastern LA Fan
Boxtardistan
Member since Oct 2011
20824 posts

re: Mainieri: Stevenson in CF is "fairly permanent"


its not even about power, its about rbi's and batting average....





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SouthOfSouth
USA Fan
South of I-10 till I die
Member since Jun 2008
31007 posts

re: Mainieri: Stevenson in CF is "fairly permanent"


quote:

We back on the same page, SoS?


You sound like an AP voter... Each lineup should be 100% based off current information. Acting like the reason the lineup is still a particular way doesn't make sense logically. I agree that game 1 would have been based off of the most current information, which is what you used as a premise.

Now there is a lot more information to go off. Like I said earlier, while I think LSU's lineup would be more productive with Katx 4 and Rhymes 5, I will always support CPM on his decisions. Just simply giving my $.02 on why I think the way I do.

Please don't think I am arguing with you just for the sake of it, I think this is a very interesting decision from a gameplanning standpoint and discussing it is very interesting.






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SouthOfSouth
USA Fan
South of I-10 till I die
Member since Jun 2008
31007 posts

re: Mainieri: Stevenson in CF is "fairly permanent"


quote:

um no. each team, in college, is different and often a little different approach is better. the pro's are more cookie cutter. and having a DH changes traditional thinking some. the 4 hole hitter is the guy that is supposed to knock in the lead off and #2 guy who is suppossed to get on base but no power. yet, with the DH, the #3 and #5 hole hitter come into play big time. even in the pro's there are some huge power hitters in those two spots. line-ups are not as cut and dried like they used to be.


I can go with this. I agree nothing is cookie cutter, but I don't see the reason that 2013 Rhymes bats in front of 2013 Katz. I'd rather Katz get the extra at bats and bat behind our leading hitter Bregman. Plus with a formidable 5 hole hitter behind Katz he would see better pitches to drive. Rhymes is great at putting the ball where he needs to based on the pitch so having someone behind him "protect" him isn't as important in my opinion.






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therick711
USA Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Jan 2008
7613 posts

re: Mainieri: Stevenson in CF is "fairly permanent"


quote:

Please don't think I am arguing with you just for the sake of it, I think this is a very interesting decision from a gameplanning standpoint and discussing it is very interesting.


I certainly don't. I respect your opinion as valid. It appeared to me that my point was getting away from you and morphing into that batting 5th helped Katz's strikeout rate. I have no idea where that even came from.






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SouthOfSouth
USA Fan
South of I-10 till I die
Member since Jun 2008
31007 posts

re: Mainieri: Stevenson in CF is "fairly permanent"


quote:

It appeared to me that my point was getting away from you and morphing into that batting 5th helped Katz's strikeout rate. I have no idea where that even came from.


Because when I asked why you wouldn't use this years numbers you said because the lineup has been set all year. I hadn't realized at that point that you have decided the reason we shouldn't change the lineup is because we already had it set and there is no reason to change it.







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