My faith in Bitcoin just went out the window | Page 2 | TigerDroppings.com

Posted byMessage
WikiTiger
LSU Fan
Member since Sep 2007
40721 posts

re: My faith in Bitcoin just went out the window


quote:

You said that insurance is a way to protect your bitcoins. How is that a viable system?


No. I said that third party companies that interact with bitcoins in some manner could get insurance if they so choose.







Back to top
TheOcean
Florida State Fan
Member since Aug 2004
30544 posts

re: My faith in Bitcoin just went out the window


So how is the individual protected?





Back to top
LSURussian
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Feb 2005
83700 posts

re: My faith in Bitcoin just went out the window


quote:

I still don't understand how the article in the OP is an indictment of bitcoin. Can someone explain that?
What part of "lost their money" confuses you?

quote:

and political ramifications of it.
Not on this board, please. Don't pollute this board with your paranoid political beliefs.

quote:

What would it take for any of you bitcoin doubters to finally admit it's legit and worthwhile?
Turn that around, what will it take for you to admit it is a risky scam?

quote:

do you not see that there is demand and thus value in a decentralized currency?

Only to the paranoid, Chicken Little's of the world.







Back to top
  Replies (0)
LSURussian
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Feb 2005
83700 posts

re: My faith in Bitcoin just went out the window


quote:

third party companies that interact with bitcoins in some manner could get insurance


Did the company that got hacked have insurance for its customers, thus they didn't lose their money?

"Coulda, woulda, shoulda....."






Back to top
  Replies (0)
WikiTiger
LSU Fan
Member since Sep 2007
40721 posts

re: My faith in Bitcoin just went out the window


quote:

So how is the individual protected?


Individuals can protect themselves in a variety of ways.

Encrypting your wallet is the best way.

Individuals can also choose to store their bitcoins with a third party company, similar to the way we currently use banks. It is up to the individual to determine if the company is trustworthy and has taken the proper security measures to protect their bitcoins.







Back to top
TheOcean
Florida State Fan
Member since Aug 2004
30544 posts

re: My faith in Bitcoin just went out the window


I consider myself pretty computer savvy, but everything you just mentioned throws up a bunch of red flags.

There is very little about the internet I find trustworthy, why would I trust a bunch of third party companies to take care of my money? What are my avenues for collecting damages if something happens?






Back to top
WikiTiger
LSU Fan
Member since Sep 2007
40721 posts

re: My faith in Bitcoin just went out the window


quote:

I consider myself pretty computer savvy, but everything you just mentioned throws up a bunch of red flags.


You might want to reconsider your level of savvy.

quote:

why would I trust a bunch of third party companies to take care of my money?


Why do you trust banks to do it?

FWIW, I don't like the idea of using a third party to store your bitcoins. I think it's stupid. One of the major benefits of bitcoin is that you no longer need a bank (or third party). But some people choose that option. It's not up to me to tell other individuals how to handle their own money, though.

quote:

What are my avenues for collecting damages if something happens?


If entrusted with a third party? I'd imagine you could sue them, or if they were insured then their insurance company would handle all that.

If you were storing your bitcoins yourself and someone somehow gained access to them, then I'd imagine you'd have the same recourse as if someone stole a wad of cash from you. Theft is theft.







Back to top
TheOcean
Florida State Fan
Member since Aug 2004
30544 posts

re: My faith in Bitcoin just went out the window


quote:

Why do you trust banks to do it?


Seriously?

quote:

It's not up to me to tell other individuals how to handle their own money, though.


So how do you handle your bitcoins and are you confident that they are safe?

quote:

If you were storing your bitcoins yourself and someone somehow gained access to them, then I'd imagine you'd have the same recourse as if someone stole a wad of cash from you. Theft is theft.


How am I going to figure out who hacked me? The time/money spent to try and chase someone down that could be anywhere in the world seems a little absurd.






Back to top
LSURussian
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Feb 2005
83700 posts

re: My faith in Bitcoin just went out the window


quote:

It's not up to me to tell other individuals how to handle their own money, though.

Do you mean except for the multiple threads you've started and numerous posts you've made encouraging others to put their money into bitcoins?

quote:

then I'd imagine you'd have the same recourse as if someone stole a wad of cash from you.
Are bitcoins legally considered property?






Back to top
  Replies (0)
WikiTiger
LSU Fan
Member since Sep 2007
40721 posts

re: My faith in Bitcoin just went out the window


quote:

So how do you handle your bitcoins and are you confident that they are safe?


Encrypted wallet on a non-internet connected storage medium with multiple backups

That's the ideal for storing your savings.

Many people also utilize encrypted wallets on their main PC just for spending money, i.e. they only keep a small amount in there.

And again, some store them with third parties.


And FWIW, the whole bitcoin environment is still in its infancy. The infrastructure is still being built up. It will continue to get better.

bitcoin is now as the internet was in 1993.

and yet today we have functional illiterates tweeting pics and comments daily.

The foundation will continue to grow and get easier to use.

quote:

How am I going to figure out who hacked me? The time/money spent to try and chase someone down that could be anywhere in the world seems a little absurd.



I don't know. I'm just saying that theft is theft. You should probably encrypt your wallet if you are that worried.



This post was edited on 3/7 at 5:52 pm


Back to top
Vols&Shaft83
Tennessee Fan
Member since Dec 2012
17841 posts

re: My faith in Bitcoin just went out the window


***The Following question is plagiarized, not copied***

So, are bitcoins legally considered property?






Back to top
LSURussian
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Feb 2005
83700 posts

re: My faith in Bitcoin just went out the window


quote:

Encrypted wallet on a non-internet connected storage medium with multiple backups
Well, you can't get much simpler than that.....






Back to top
  Replies (0)
WikiTiger
LSU Fan
Member since Sep 2007
40721 posts

re: My faith in Bitcoin just went out the window


quote:

So, are bitcoins legally considered property?


That is a very silly question.

Legally considered property? What does that even mean?

I guess I'll start by defining property as being anything you can own. Does it have to be tangible? No, after all, we do have "intellectual property" in the US. Bitcoins are controlled by a private key, which is basically a very long string of numbers and letters that represent a very long number. You can physically see that string. You can print it out if you want. And there is a value that goes along with it. For each full bitcoin that string controls, the current value is about $42.

If someone breaks into your computer and steal your wallet, then they have stolen something with an actual value of whatever your wallet was worth at that time.


For further info on the legal status of bitcoins, however, you can check out this list of cases from around the world:

List of court cases, complaints, regulatory actions, etc.








Back to top
LSURussian
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Feb 2005
83700 posts

re: My faith in Bitcoin just went out the window


quote:

Legally considered property? What does that even mean?
It's self explanatory.

You have said multiple times that someone who has his bitcoins stolen can sue. To do that bitcoins would have to be recognized as property.

The link you gave didn't answer that question.






Back to top
TigerDeBaiter
LSU Fan
Member since Dec 2010
2891 posts

re: My faith in Bitcoin just went out the window


quote:

Why do you trust banks to do it?


You can't be serious.

If someone steals my debit//credit card I'm not liable for a dime. If a retailer try's to screw me, banks will typically have your back. Name one legitimate case of a bank being untrustworthy with cash deposits.






Back to top
WikiTiger
LSU Fan
Member since Sep 2007
40721 posts

re: My faith in Bitcoin just went out the window


quote:

You can't be serious.

If someone steals my debit//credit card I'm not liable for a dime. If a retailer try's to screw me, banks will typically have your back. Name one legitimate case of a bank being untrustworthy with cash deposits.


You missed my point and made it for me at the same time.

You trust your bank because they have earned your trust by implementing policies that you feel mitigate the risk you take depositing your money with them.

Some people might trust third party companies that handle bitcoins for many of the same reasons. Who knows what their motivation is? The point is that they trusted them. Whether or not it was a good decision is debatable.

Do you think it's possible that a company that handles bitcoins could be secure and build up a trustworthy reputation?






Back to top
LSURussian
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Feb 2005
83700 posts

re: My faith in Bitcoin just went out the window


quote:

You trust your bank because they have earned your trust by implementing policies that you feel mitigate the risk you take depositing your money with them.

And having laws which specifically protect bank customers have nothing to do with it.






Back to top
  Replies (0)
Vols&Shaft83
Tennessee Fan
Member since Dec 2012
17841 posts

re: My faith in Bitcoin just went out the window


quote:

Do you think it's possible that a company that handles bitcoins could be secure and build up a trustworthy reputation?








Back to top
  Replies (0)
TigerDeBaiter
LSU Fan
Member since Dec 2010
2891 posts

re: My faith in Bitcoin just went out the window


It would certainly be possible for some I suppose, but not me, simply because I don't believe in the concept of actually owning them in the first place.

So was this company considered "reputable" before this little snafu?






Back to top
WikiTiger
LSU Fan
Member since Sep 2007
40721 posts

re: My faith in Bitcoin just went out the window


quote:

So was this company considered "reputable" before this little snafu?


Yes, and to be honest, I see no reason why they shouldn't still be considered reputable.

I am assuming most people didn't even read the article and instead relied on the sensational headline to form their opinion, but here's what happened, quoted from the article in the OP:

quote:

The criminals were able to take control of Bitinstant’s internet domains by convincing its domain registrar, Site5, to hand over control of the company’s Domain Name Service, or DNS. “Armed with knowledge of my place of birth and mother’s maiden name alone (both facts easy to locate on the public record) they convinced Site5 staff to add their email address to the account and make it the primary login,” the company said Monday in a blog post detailing the incident.

With control of the DNS, the bad guys also had control over Bitinstant’s email. They then did an online password reset at a Bitcoin exchange called VirWox and started emptying Bitinstant’s account. The total haul: $12,480.


So, for one thing, it wasn't even a technical hack. It was a social engineering hack. Second, it was their DNS provider that screwed them over.


But not only that, the only party that suffered any damages was the BitInstant company itself.

No customers were harmed.

You know why?

Because BitInstant doesn't store people's bitcoins for them. That's not what their business is.

BitInstant allows people to quickly use cash or other methods to procure bitcoins. You don't even need an account with them. You can take some cash to a WalMart, send a MoneyGram to BitInstant, and have bitcoins in your wallet on your own computer by the time you get home.



So, again, I just don't understand why anyone with half a brain would think the article in the OP was an indictment of bitcoin, but when people just read sensational headlines instead of the articles, I guess that's what you get.



This post was edited on 3/7 at 6:47 pm


Back to top


Back to top