We really need Odo - Page 3 - TigerDroppings.com

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Dos Gris
Member since Jun 2012
1286 posts

re: We really need Odo


Wasn't Torris Bright about 6'5"?





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thunderbird1100
LSU Fan
GSU Eagles fan
Member since Oct 2007
36017 posts

re: We really need Odo


quote:

You don't know what you are talking about.



No, you dont know how to interpret what I'm saying. I wasn't trying to say we beat up on their euroleague top teams.


quote:

All EuroLeague teams are the same teams that compete in their national club league. They just qualify to also compete in the EuroLeague.



Which is what I said, EuroLeague is the best teams in europe. But it's only 20-30ish teams across the entirety of pro european basketball for a given year (which has a few HUNDRED pro teams) of which, like i said, each country pretty much has their own pro league and MOST of the teams in these arent very good. Hence why I said your general euro pro team. A top end euroleague team isn't what I would call a general pro euro team.

Obviously when I'm making the connection that college teams are going over beating the tar out of said general pro teams I'm not talking about Real Madrid or FC Barcelona Regal. I'm talking about your general level "pro" euro team.

You dont need to explain anything on how it works over there. I know it's a tiered system much like soccer. I think you just misunderstood what I was saying.



This post was edited on 3/3 at 2:03 am


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CourseyCorridor
TBD Fan
Baton Rouge, La.
Member since May 2012
1994 posts

re: We really need Odo


You don't know what you are talking about.

You are still mixing the club system with our own. Where here, you graduate from amateur to pro, over there you are always in the club system -- even as a kid -- so it's tricky and somewhat meaningless to try to decipher if a low-level club team is what we would be the equivalent of what we would consider pro.

There are tons of small, community-based clubs in Europe. They are pro in the same way a crappy local indoor football team is pro.

I mean, Spain has 48 million people, roughly the population of Californa and Oregon, and it has well over a hundred basketball clubs, all of which have adult teams that are at, some level, pro.

So saying our colleges can beat their pros is meaningless and deceiving. We can probably send NAIA teams over there who can find low-end club teams they can kill.

But pros as we think of them? Those high-end clubs that attract the best players over there?

Our college teams would struggle with those teams.



This post was edited on 3/3 at 2:35 am


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thunderbird1100
LSU Fan
GSU Eagles fan
Member since Oct 2007
36017 posts

re: We really need Odo


quote:

You don't know what you are talking about.



No, once again you just failed to interpret what I was saying. I specifically said we aren't beating up on their top euroleague teams like FC Barcelona. When I said a general euro pro team and connected that to our college teams, you should have realized what I was talking about. Nothing is foreign to me about how things work over there in basketball and soccer.



This post was edited on 3/3 at 10:39 am


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CourseyCorridor
TBD Fan
Baton Rouge, La.
Member since May 2012
1994 posts

re: We really need Odo


quote:

Nothing is foreign to me about how things work over there in basketball and soccer.


Then why are you judging European players based on the observation that U.S. colleges "beat their pros?"

If you understood how things are organized there, you would never make that observation.

I'll clarify it for you further. The top 3 percent of U.S. high school basketball players play NCAA college basketball and 1 percent of college players play in the NBA. Probably 5 percent of of youth league players in the major European basketball countries will play some level of adult club basketball. Remember, there is no such thing as intercollegiate basketball there. It's a club system from youth league to retirement. And there are 54 teams in Spain's three most competitive club leagues (18 in the ACB, their best league). So a higher percentage of their players play in the top three levels of club basketball than play in COLLEGE basketball in the U.S.

So if a U.S. college plays a team from, say, Spain's third-tier league, they are playing players who are further down their own country's pecking order of players than typical D-I American college players are in the U.S.

So, when you're saying American colleges wipe the floor with their pros, well, who exactly are they wiping the floor with? Is it a highly competitive club team or is it players that are further down their own country's pool of players than what American college players in the American pool of players?

So what's the point in saying Euros suck because college teams beat their pros? It's a completely different system.

Top-end Euro countries are competitive with U.S. basketball when the level of competition is apples-to-apples. Spain is a threat to beat the U.S. in international competition despite having a population barely larger than California. European powers can compete with us well in age-group competition as well.

It's hard to match up U.S. college teams with European club teams because there isn't a level of club ball that is quite like American college ball. Lower level clubs tend to not be college standard but the top-level clubs tend to take the talent right out of the youth clubs (Rubio signed with his club's pro team at 16, for example) so there isn't this "bridge" level where the top 3 percent stop over before going "pro."








This post was edited on 3/3 at 7:57 pm


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thunderbird1100
LSU Fan
GSU Eagles fan
Member since Oct 2007
36017 posts

re: We really need Odo


quote:

Then why are you judging European players based on the observation that U.S. colleges "beat their pros?"



I was judging european amateur players having a rough transition from there to over here for college ball then mocking their general pro teams who usually suck. Once again, I've said over and over and over I wasn't talking about the top clubs. There's hundreds of clubs over there. Pretty clear to make the connection that I was talking about the typical pro teams when I said our college teams whip them.

Just give it up already.



This post was edited on 3/3 at 7:54 pm


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CourseyCorridor
TBD Fan
Baton Rouge, La.
Member since May 2012
1994 posts

re: We really need Odo


quote:

I was judging european amateur players having a rough transition from there to over here for college ball


I don't have a problem with that, because it's a different style of play. But you based your observation on U.S. colleges beating their "pros." Which makes no sense because the pros our colleges tend to beat are often teams the Euro players LSU would recruit are too good to play for.

That's the thing. You are stuck on the American notion of "pro" meaning "elite" as opposed to the Euro notion of "club" meaning any competitive adult level. There are clubs that are comparable to the NBA. There are clubs that couldn't compete in D-II college. There are clubs that pay almost like an NBA team. There are club players at the lower levels who are happy to get their expenses covered and work on the side to support themselves.

That whole premise you are building on is flat wrong. Now, I'd accept that they might struggle with American style or American athleticism, which are two things they won't be used to, but it won't be because their competition is weak.







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fightingtigers98
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
Member since Oct 2011
9495 posts

re: We really need Odo


still arguing about this?





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thunderbird1100
LSU Fan
GSU Eagles fan
Member since Oct 2007
36017 posts

re: We really need Odo


quote:

But you based your observation on U.S. colleges beating their "pros."


No, I was simply taking a funny stab at the bad pro teams they do have over there that college teams kill. That's all.

My main point over and over and over was going from amateur ball over there to college ball over here is a really tough transition for multiple reasons. Which you agree, end of story.

You put WAY too much effort into nothing here.






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CourseyCorridor
TBD Fan
Baton Rouge, La.
Member since May 2012
1994 posts

re: We really need Odo


quote:

My main point over and over and over was going from amateur ball over there to college ball over here is a really tough transition for multiple reasons.


Actually you gave one reason:

quote:

Amateur basketball overseas is just so terrible


Let's look at the last five winners of the FIBA U19 (meaning mostly amateurs) basketball championships:

2011 -- Lithuania (U.S. did not medal)
2009 -- U.S.
2007 -- Serbia (U.S. Silver)
2003 -- Australia (U.S. did not medal)
1999 -- Spain (U.S. silver)
1995 -- Greece (U.S. did not medal)

The international competition is comparable to American competition.

I get tired of people perpetuating the myth that American college basketball is better than European basketball. And you were doing that, admit it.







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thunderbird1100
LSU Fan
GSU Eagles fan
Member since Oct 2007
36017 posts

re: We really need Odo


quote:

Let's look at the last five winners of the FIBA U19 (meaning mostly amateurs) basketball championships:



Pointless, you are comparing a meaningless tournament to the ENTIRETY of competition. If you think competition for kids in high school is the same toughness level in europe vs. U.S. you roll with that.

You're just arguing to argue at this point. You already agreed its a tough transition which is what I said. Give it a rest already.



This post was edited on 3/3 at 8:36 pm


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CourseyCorridor
TBD Fan
Baton Rouge, La.
Member since May 2012
1994 posts

re: We really need Odo


quote:

Pointless, you are comparing a meaningless tournament to the ENTIRETY of competition. If you think competition for kids in high school is the same toughness level in europe vs. U.S. you roll with that.


Pointless? What's pointless is comparing American college basketball to any level in the European rung because there is no equivalent. There is no 1-4 year stopover between youth league and the pros in Europe. 17-18 year olds simply start getting absorbed into the club system, some levels of which are clearly better than US collegiate ball and some levels that are clearly inferior, but nothing quite the same.

That you still talk about European "HIGH SCHOOL" basketball (hint: There's no such thing) shows that you don't grasp the fundamental differences in the system.

But roll with whatever you think.







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fightingtigers98
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
Member since Oct 2011
9495 posts

re: We really need Odo


i think this might be a thread hijack... Can we get back on topic.





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thunderbird1100
LSU Fan
GSU Eagles fan
Member since Oct 2007
36017 posts

re: We really need Odo


quote:

That you still talk about European "HIGH SCHOOL" basketball (hint: There's no such thing) shows that you don't grasp the fundamental differences in the system.



I didnt say they had high school basketball. I said competition while they are that age, hence "amateur basketball". Stop arguing to argue. You are taking every little thing I say, twist it into something completely different, then go off on a tirade of which I'm not reading because I already know everything you're saying. Just give it a damn rest already, you already agreed with me.



This post was edited on 3/4 at 1:03 am


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thunderbird1100
LSU Fan
GSU Eagles fan
Member since Oct 2007
36017 posts

re: We really need Odo


quote:

i think this might be a thread hijack... Can we get back on topic.



No problem if this guy gives it a damn rest. He's hell bent on explaining european basketball for absolutely no reason at all.






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fightingtigers98
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
Member since Oct 2011
9495 posts

re: We really need Odo


quote:

No problem if this guy gives it a damn rest. He's hell bent on explaining european basketball for absolutely no reason at all.

yeah i didn't read it, all i was a wall of text.






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thunderbird1100
LSU Fan
GSU Eagles fan
Member since Oct 2007
36017 posts

re: We really need Odo


But yes, we absolutely need Odo for rebounding especially. The Mizzou game was painfully obvious on that one.





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omegaman66
LSU Fan
greenwell springs
Member since Oct 2007
7430 posts

re: We really need Odo


I am not sure who wins the starting point guard spot but my money is not on a true freshman at this point when we are getting good play from that spot right now!

I am soooo looking forward to getting rebounds after our 5 misses shots and our 4 slams it home! Having two decent 5's on the team and on the court at the same time pays off on the boards and helps with everything, collapsing on the 5 as well as the guards getting open outside shots.

But they are not going to play like that all game. Not even close. Starting lineup is only half of the formula. The second lineup will get as many minutes as the starting lineup.

Next season is going to be sweet if JOB does the right thing and comes back!






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CourseyCorridor
TBD Fan
Baton Rouge, La.
Member since May 2012
1994 posts

re: We really need Odo


I'd have no problem if you'd ever just comprehend the point.

But yeah, LSU could use Odo, although I'm not convinced he's very good. After all, he has that weak, non-American playing background ...






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Walter White
LSU Fan
Lafayette/New Orleans
Member since Sep 2012
2434 posts

re: We really need Odo


quote:

I think if Hamilton had stayed


We'd be battling Florida for 1st place in the SEC. Probably sitting at 4-5 losses on the year.






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