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bountyhunter 
New Orleans Saints Fan
Red Stick
Member since Mar 2012
537 posts
| re: Cap update: ~$2m over, Will Smith update: still fat (Posted on 2/28/13 at 8:01 am to blueslover)
Isn't New England a lot better in the draft too? We've had some pretty disappointing 1st rounders the last few years. Seems like the Pats always have new guys that perform average or better than average on their rookie years. Haven't seen that so much with the Saints. Just what I've noticed watching both teams play, it's not backed up by facts or statistics.
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Bduhon55
New Orleans Saints Fan
St. Petersburg, FL
Member since Sep 2008
2973 posts
| re: Cap update: ~$2m over, Will Smith update: still fat (Posted on 2/28/13 at 8:02 am to bountyhunter)
they normally have better than average defensive guys mostly because Belichik is a defensive coach....Saints have had good picks and UDFA with offense...
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bountyhunter
New Orleans Saints Fan
Red Stick
Member since Mar 2012
537 posts
| re: Cap update: ~$2m over, Will Smith update: still fat (Posted on 2/28/13 at 8:05 am to Bduhon55)
Oh yeah, the Saints have been great in talent selection on the offensive side of the ball. I just hope that Ryan is a better at evaluating defensive talent than the last two guys.
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Brettesaurus Rex 
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Dec 2009
14654 posts
 Online
| re: Cap update: ~$2m over, Will Smith update: still fat (Posted on 2/28/13 at 8:05 am to Bduhon55)
Honestly the last rookie who really wowed us in their first season was Reggie. I would say we could see the potential in Jordan and Ingram their first season, but thats about the extent of it.
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bountyhunter
New Orleans Saints Fan
Red Stick
Member since Mar 2012
537 posts
| re: Cap update: ~$2m over, Will Smith update: still fat (Posted on 2/28/13 at 8:15 am to Brettesaurus Rex)
quote:
Honestly the last rookie who really wowed us in their first season was Reggie. I would say we could see the potential in Jordan and Ingram their first season, but thats about the extent of it.
Only problem with the Reggie deal was the contract associated with it. Hell, the "Reggie Bush Lottery" nickname for the draft tells all.
The best thing about the draft now, to me, is the new caps on rookie deals. If you miss the boat on all-star, rookie of the year types of players, you have to make up for it with proven guys with big price tags. Jimmy Graham/Carl Nicks are really the only players that have really blown me away with the price for performance ratio. But none of those players are defensive, it just seems like we are paying a premium price for crap quality there.
This post was edited on 2/28 at 8:16 am
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Patrick O Rly
New Orleans Saints Fan
y u do dis?
Member since Aug 2011
26203 posts
Online
| re: Cap update: ~$2m over, Will Smith update: still fat (Posted on 2/28/13 at 8:57 am to htran90)
quote:
isn't the primary job of a 3-4DE to run stop...? wasn't he extremely horrible even in doing that? correct me if I'm wrong.
Sort of. Their primary job is drawing double teams and keeping the lb's clean. Smith is easily handled by one blocker.
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blueslover
New Orleans Saints Fan
soon to be south of zero
Member since Sep 2007
18293 posts
| re: Cap update: ~$2m over, Will Smith update: still fat (Posted on 2/28/13 at 9:13 am to Patrick O Rly)
I think it may be this as much as anything... It's gonna cost $millions to cut him. If ya can keep him for a minimal amount more than that ya might as well and get some reps outta him.
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whodatfan
New Orleans Saints Fan
Member since Mar 2008
12527 posts
| re: Cap update: ~$2m over, Will Smith update: still fat (Posted on 2/28/13 at 9:14 am to Patrick O Rly)
Whether or not smith will prove successful in the 3-4 is not of no interest to me personally. I want to move on from the smith/vilma era period. We can't afford to keep wasting another year and another year blah blah on old players who shouldn't be starting. This defense will not get over the hump until we inject some new youthful playmakers in those spots. Can't do that if these roster spots are being clogged up by old turds. It may take a season or two to find the playmakers to fill that roll. IMO it's these guys and a few others that are holding this team back.
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Patrick O Rly
New Orleans Saints Fan
y u do dis?
Member since Aug 2011
26203 posts
Online
| re: Cap update: ~$2m over, Will Smith update: still fat (Posted on 2/28/13 at 9:17 am to whodatfan)
I tend to lean your way.
I wish Tyrunn Walker would have gotten some playing time last year. Instead we had to watch Ellis do absolutely nothing.
This post was edited on 2/28 at 9:21 am
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goatmilker
New Orleans Saints Fan
Proudville USA
Member since Feb 2009
9506 posts
| re: Cap update: ~$2m over, Will Smith update: still fat (Posted on 2/28/13 at 9:20 am to Patrick O Rly)
Ditto
I dont see Harper and Smith being able to take such a cut.
Vilma I think really wants to fight for a roster spot to flip Rog the bird.
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MISSIPSAINT
New Orleans Saints Fan
Magee
Member since Feb 2013
222 posts
| re: Cap update: ~$2m over, Will Smith update: still fat (Posted on 2/28/13 at 9:24 am to THRILLHO)
I dont think Smith or Vilma is a good fit for Ryan's 34 scheme. Smith is not a book-end for a 34. Does not shed blocks well,has never played the position. I like Vilma's leadership but just think he is a rotational player for this team. So maybe the leadership does not outweigh the production. The interesting player is Harper! Why no talks of restructure yet? Look at where Loomis started with restructures. They have all been Veteran leaders.IMO I would like a younger and faster SS. Just dont like the idea of a S that only does one thing well and when asked to cover is a huge liability.
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goatmilker
New Orleans Saints Fan
Proudville USA
Member since Feb 2009
9506 posts
| re: Cap update: ~$2m over, Will Smith update: still fat (Posted on 2/28/13 at 9:26 am to MISSIPSAINT)
quote:
The interesting player is Harper! Why no talks of restructure yet?
Perhaps Harps agent told Loomis go frick youself
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Chad504boy
New Orleans Saints Fan
Five Oh Four
Member since Feb 2005
66297 posts
| re: Cap update: ~$2m over, Will Smith update: still fat (Posted on 2/28/13 at 9:29 am to Patrick O Rly)
quote:
Sort of. Their primary job is drawing double teams and keeping the lb's clean. Smith is easily handled by one blocker.
It's the classic "well he's not that good of a pass rusher anymore so he must be better suited for a 3-4 now theory". It's bullshite, Will Smith does not take up blocks, like paddy said he gets handled and overpowered all the time. He's not super against the run. I don't like the veteran on the team cause I think coach will tend to play him more than deserved to be honest.
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MISSIPSAINT
New Orleans Saints Fan
Magee
Member since Feb 2013
222 posts
| re: Cap update: ~$2m over, Will Smith update: still fat (Posted on 2/28/13 at 9:33 am to goatmilker)
I personally think he needs to go, but I know some feal like he would play well as a rover in RR34. Would not mind seeing us take TM and let him play nickel and let Corey White play some SS.
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Patrick O Rly
New Orleans Saints Fan
y u do dis?
Member since Aug 2011
26203 posts
Online
| re: Cap update: ~$2m over, Will Smith update: still fat (Posted on 2/28/13 at 9:43 am to Chad504boy)
quote:
I don't like the veteran on the team cause I think coach will tend to play him more than deserved to be honest.
Ain't that the truth. I guess for coaches it's a matter of trust, as in "Ellis and Smith I trust you to not make any plays or have an impact at all."
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sgent3125
Member since Dec 2009
91 posts
| re: Cap update: ~$2m over, Will Smith update: still fat (Posted on 2/28/13 at 9:57 am to Patrick O Rly)
Interesting read today from overthecap.com.
Saints Cap Situation Post-Restructuring (2014)
I really like our chances of building up a team for a run next year. Loomis has really navigated a tough cap situation well. I hope he can continue that trend in 2014.
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blueslover
New Orleans Saints Fan
soon to be south of zero
Member since Sep 2007
18293 posts
| re: Cap update: ~$2m over, Will Smith update: still fat (Posted on 2/28/13 at 10:35 am to sgent3125)
decent linkage
quote:
I really like our chances of building up a team for a run next year
I go for the koolaid myself but the link only emphasized that the process of rolling cap money forward can only be done so far for so long. Eventually ya gotta have some pay the piper cuts (like letting Nicks walk).
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htran90
New Orleans Saints Fan
belle chasse
Member since Dec 2012
509 posts
| re: Cap update: ~$2m over, Will Smith update: still fat (Posted on 2/28/13 at 10:58 am to blueslover)
quote:
I go for the koolaid myself but the link only emphasized that the process of rolling cap money forward can only be done so far for so long. Eventually ya gotta have some pay the piper cuts (like letting Nicks walk).
letting bushrod walk this year is going to be one of the bigger steps imo.
I love the 09 team, but we need to lose vilma, smith, and harper or we're going to be extremely screwed in the future. We can't keep restructuring over and over it's gonna catch up to us. we need to start getting players to take pay cuts.
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blueslover
New Orleans Saints Fan
soon to be south of zero
Member since Sep 2007
18293 posts
| re: Cap update: ~$2m over, Will Smith update: still fat (Posted on 2/28/13 at 11:18 am to htran90)
hard core negotiating would be to franchise or transition tag Bushrod with no intention of keeping him.
Ya could get a 4th or 5th Rder at least from a team that wanted him then. You do have to come up with almost $10mil of cap room to do that though.
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Chad504boy
New Orleans Saints Fan
Five Oh Four
Member since Feb 2005
66297 posts
| re: Cap update: ~$2m over, Will Smith update: still fat (Posted on 2/28/13 at 11:22 am to blueslover)
quote:
Ya could get a 4th or 5th Rder at least from a team that wanted him then. You do have to come up with almost $10mil of cap room to do that though.
Lots of Decent OT's in the FA market, risky move to rely upon a team to give up compensation AND agree on a contract with Jermon all the while taking a risk of paying him a huge penny for one more year.
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