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GhostofJackson
Yale Fan
Everybody-gets-a-trophy land
Member since Nov 2009
4089 posts

re: IP topic of the day: The Pirate Bay's legal policy

quote:

I know that they have permitted for the creation of things that I like and enjoy. I also have no beef with the limits on it.

If someone creates a widget with the knowledge that they will have protection of that widget for ten, fifteen, twenty years...they will recoup the cost of their creation and profit from it during that time. They also know that if they fail to improve upon it, innovate more, then when that protection ends, they are done for.


But it's their property, how can we take their property from them just because a timeframe ended?

quote:

But what I think some are missing here is that without those protections at all, what's the point of creating? Who would bother if they can't profit from it?


Maybe not everyone is about the bottom dollar?



ForeLSU
LSU Fan
The Corner of Sanity and Madness
Member since Sep 2003
35823 posts
Online

re: IP topic of the day: The Pirate Bay's legal policy
quote:

Agree to disagree, an algorithm is information. This information is built upon itself to create a complex mathematical equation, but an algorithm is not a singular unit.


To be clear, I don't personally care if anyone copies my designs and builds their own solution, many of the Internet patents are complete jokes. The knowledge to create virtually anything these days is readily available. My ethical issue is with someone knowingly violating a licensing agreement by distributing un-licensed copies of electronic files.


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ForeLSU
LSU Fan
The Corner of Sanity and Madness
Member since Sep 2003
35823 posts
Online

re: IP topic of the day: The Pirate Bay's legal policy
quote:

and yet I posted an example where people voluntarily and freely came together and created the most stable and secure operating system available. And not only that, but created MANY MANY MANY versions of it


it still comes with a license though...


WikiTiger
LSU Fan
Member since Sep 2007
40721 posts

re: IP topic of the day: The Pirate Bay's legal policy
quote:

But what I think some are missing here is that without those protections at all, what's the point of creating?


People create because people love to create.

Most artists do not do it for the money.

This concept is ignored in these debates.

Plain and simple: Human beings have an innate desire to create things that others enjoy because it makes them feel happy and accomplished. Period. Any money that comes with it is ancillary.

quote:

Who would bother if they can't profit from it?


TONS OF PEOPLE

Have you been on the internet longer than a week? Look around. There is a massive explosion in creativity being facilitated by the internet. People create memes, videos, write songs, fan fiction, make movies, etc etc etc. All because they can and it makes them happy.

quote:

You would know better than I do, but how does Linus profit from the creation of their operating system?


I don't know what Linus does specifically (I think he has a day job as a software engineer), but Red Hat and Canonical make money on Linux by selling support.





Tiguar
South Alabama Fan
Knoxville
Member since Mar 2012
11390 posts

re: IP topic of the day: The Pirate Bay's legal policy
I made my own RPG once with RPGmaker (that I got off a torrent)

Game sucked arse but I had fun making it


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Freauxzen
USA Fan
Utah
Member since Feb 2006
23977 posts
Online

re: IP topic of the day: The Pirate Bay's legal policy
quote:

Society benefits from the dissemination of culture. Limiting this dissemination hurts the overall quality of the society in which we live. To create a better society, these things need to be accessible to as large of an audience as possible as cheaply as possible, which requires the protection of such creations through property rights.

I get that it's easy to copy and people will find ways to get off as cheap as possible. I don't have a problem with that concept. I don't have a problem with people saying that companies need to evolve, to capture what people want--the best quality things at the cheapest possible price point.


I agree with all of this.

quote:

However, I have a problem with the belief that this price point should be zero and that people who don't compensate creators are doing nothing wrong by taking, copying, and then distributing the creation of someone else's labor as if they have actually done anything of consequence.


But is this really what is happening? That would be my argument.

Trust me, I get it. Like I pointed out earlier though, I would have probably spent less money on music if I hadn't done some copying. Copying has allowed people to pinpoint their tastes, cycle through all of the crap, and really find what they are passionate about. The music industry doesn't really understand that.

I would have never listened to or gotten the chance to listen to Whiskeytown without copying, which means I probably wouldn't have found and bought Wilco, which means I would have never copied Uncle Tupelo, which means I would have never found the North Mississippi All Stars, which means I would have never paid to see the Hold Steady 6 times, bought every album, some LPs a t-shirt and a whole bunch of awesome memories.

Is it stealing and/or theft? That;s semantics. Is it an illegal use of copyright? Of course. Is it morally wrong? Wellll...at its foundation, yes, it is the taking of something that's not yours.


But is it worth it for me AND for the record industry? Quite possibly.




(Granted, that's not all cases, but I really have a hard believing that free exposure is a bad thing. And I also find it hard to believe that MOST downloaders live in some non-consumption bubble. They are going to consume, they are going to pay for something, somewhere. I mean you are downloading something because you like it, most likely because you really like it. There's something to be said for that outside of legal standings).
This post was edited on 2/13 at 3:55 pm


ForeLSU
LSU Fan
The Corner of Sanity and Madness
Member since Sep 2003
35823 posts
Online

re: IP topic of the day: The Pirate Bay's legal policy
quote:

Bard




GhostofJackson
Yale Fan
Everybody-gets-a-trophy land
Member since Nov 2009
4089 posts

re: IP topic of the day: The Pirate Bay's legal policy
To make your point, I own a business. I don't make a ton of money doing what I do, and I really don't care because I help people. Could I maximize my profits? Sure, but that would limit the amount of people I work with. What I do could easily be replicated by other businessmen, but they would definitely charge more because they would be profit driven, not people driven.

People that only worry about what they can get out of situations is one reason why our society has a hollow core and has lost a lot of its ethics.


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ForeLSU
LSU Fan
The Corner of Sanity and Madness
Member since Sep 2003
35823 posts
Online

re: IP topic of the day: The Pirate Bay's legal policy
quote:

But it's their property, how can we take their property from them just because a timeframe ended?


that's basically the deal when they ask for protection. If they really want to keep it private, a trade secret strategy is more appropriate. Kind of like Coke's formulas


CollegeFBRules
LSU Fan
Member since Oct 2008
20337 posts

re: IP topic of the day: The Pirate Bay's legal policy
quote:

People create because people love to create.

Most artists do not do it for the money.

This concept is ignored in these debates.

Plain and simple: Human beings have an innate desire to create things that others enjoy because it makes them feel happy and accomplished. Period. Any money that comes with it is ancillary.


What a rosy, unrealistic view of the world.

quote:

There is a massive explosion in creativity being facilitated by the internet. People create memes, videos, write songs, fan fiction, make movies, etc etc etc. All because they can and it makes them happy.


Do these same people create medications that extend lives, create vehicles that move us around the world so we can see and experience things that we never have before, make the televisions and computers upon which you need to view the Internet?

The point is, I don't want to live in the woods with a bunch of nice people who like to create things for fun. You're ignoring the house in which you live, the furniture upon which you are sitting on, the electricity that you are using, the refining necessary to generate that electricity, etc. in order to paint this 2% view of the society in which you live. It's an unrealistic fantasy.


theunknownknight
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Sep 2005
30559 posts

re: IP topic of the day: The Pirate Bay's legal policy
So no one has picked up on the actual interesting issue of this debate yet?

Us AMERICANS trying to threaten SWEDEN using OUR laws...












GhostofJackson
Yale Fan
Everybody-gets-a-trophy land
Member since Nov 2009
4089 posts

re: IP topic of the day: The Pirate Bay's legal policy
quote:

Whiskeytown


Did you see Ryan Adams in BR 5 years back? That show was awesome. Not many people know about Whiskeytown. Hell, it was a bootleg CD that got me into Ryan Adams to begin with. He would have never gotten my 25 bucks for that show had it not been for bootlegging.


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WikiTiger
LSU Fan
Member since Sep 2007
40721 posts

re: IP topic of the day: The Pirate Bay's legal policy
quote:

So no one has picked up on the actual interesting issue of this debate yet?

Us AMERICANS trying to threaten SWEDEN using OUR laws...


Yea, but that's really old news, like years old.

The pirate bay kids actually were tried and convicted in sweden.

the thread has evolved to something else.


but yes, it is humorous and sad that the US thinks it can muscle its way into any legal system






WikiTiger
LSU Fan
Member since Sep 2007
40721 posts

re: IP topic of the day: The Pirate Bay's legal policy
quote:

It's an unrealistic fantasy.


And all I'll say to that is: stay tuned.



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CollegeFBRules
LSU Fan
Member since Oct 2008
20337 posts

re: IP topic of the day: The Pirate Bay's legal policy
quote:

but yes, it is humorous and sad that the US thinks it can muscle its way into any legal system


The US is wrong on this. We can agree there.


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GhostofJackson
Yale Fan
Everybody-gets-a-trophy land
Member since Nov 2009
4089 posts

re: IP topic of the day: The Pirate Bay's legal policy
quote:

that's basically the deal when they ask for protection. If they really want to keep it private, a trade secret strategy is more appropriate. Kind of like Coke's formulas


Look I get what you are saying, what we are saying is how does it make sense that after a certain amount of time your property is no longer private? Imagine this, if a car lot doesn't sell all it's products by a certain date, those cars become public domain. Time frames don't matter. It's either all the way public or all the way private.


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WikiTiger
LSU Fan
Member since Sep 2007
40721 posts

re: IP topic of the day: The Pirate Bay's legal policy
hey everyone, I'm listening to Spotify free right now. it's perfectly legal. I don't pay a penny for it in actual cash.

Why am I not pirating instead?
This post was edited on 2/13 at 4:02 pm


MrCarton
UNO Fan
Paradise Valley, MT
Member since Dec 2009
3827 posts

re: IP topic of the day: The Pirate Bay's legal policy
quote:

How quaint. They don't own their ideas in any meaningful way they can profit from them, according to you guys. What's the point of coming up with anything if you can't better yourself for creating it?



I don't see how this is so hard for you to understand.

KFC, coca cola, and numerous other companies have kept their recipes a secret using compartmentalization. While not directly related to data property rights, it shows that the concept is possible. Had they sold the ingredients to their products somebody would have "stolen" it and made copies, hence they protected those ideas.

If someone releases data into the public realm it is no longer a matter of moral right and wrong of others choosing to copy it. It is INEVITABLE. Impossible to stop and all attempts to stop it would be fruitless and result only in punishing those who chose to follow the law. This was true with boom boxes and radio, it is true with torrents, it is true with public speech. Your idea of IP was never feasible, but is only now that the futility of maintaining property rights on public information is so apparent.

People will learn to benefit and profit from their IP in new and interesting ways now and in the future. Just like other concepts have been crushed by technology in the past, the new way will be better barring government interference. Drugs, for example could easily be compartmentalized via administration centers in order to protect the ingredients from being leaked. Kinda like KFC chicken...



Bard
LA-Monroe Fan
BR
Member since Oct 2008
19406 posts

re: IP topic of the day: The Pirate Bay's legal policy
quote:

if I came up with the idea to sell groceries from a "grocery store" then I should be the only person allowed to do it unless I specifically license that idea out to someone else?


You were the one that would be rich from selling your idea. How much money do you think you would make after your idea hit the internet and was copied by everyone with a mouse?

You wouldn't get very rich.

quote:


if I came up with the idea to sell groceries from a "grocery store" then I should be the only person allowed to do it unless I specifically license that idea out to someone else?


If you someone had a magic device that made exact copies of your groceries so that for every 1 sold, this person could give out 547,000,000 exact copies and immediately beam them to anyone anywhere in the world... how many groceries would you sell, especially if they set up right across the street from you?


MrCarton
UNO Fan
Paradise Valley, MT
Member since Dec 2009
3827 posts

re: IP topic of the day: The Pirate Bay's legal policy
But..but..if you get something for nothing it is stealing!


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