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SlowFlowPro 
Stanford Fan
Equality is a circle, not a =
Member since Jan 2004
263446 posts
| re: Question for those who believe in means testing Medicare/SS (Posted on 2/13/13 at 1:03 pm to Zach)
quote:
The logic works like this. John is forced to pay into SS to the tune of 100K during his working life. At 65 retires with a net worth of 2M. So, the means testers say "Sorry, you don't get any SS because you really don't need it."
then it's not a contribution-entitlement
it's a tax-spend program like welfare, then, and we should be able to slash everyone's expected repayment
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Zach 
LSU Fan
Member since May 2005
55407 posts
| re: Question for those who believe in means testing Medicare/SS (Posted on 2/13/13 at 1:06 pm to SlowFlowPro)
Not same as welfare since WF recipients never paid anything in.
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LSU316
LSU Fan
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Member since Nov 2007
9299 posts
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| re: Question for those who believe in means testing Medicare/SS (Posted on 2/13/13 at 1:28 pm to SlowFlowPro)
quote:
we should be able to slash everyone's expected repayment
And if you cut one cut all IMO.
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SlowFlowPro
Stanford Fan
Equality is a circle, not a =
Member since Jan 2004
263446 posts
| re: Question for those who believe in means testing Medicare/SS (Posted on 2/13/13 at 1:41 pm to Zach)
quote:
Not same as welfare since WF recipients never paid anything in.
i do not think all SS/medicare participants paid in
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lsu13lsu
LSU Fan
Member since Jan 2008
1134 posts
| re: Question for those who believe in means testing Medicare/SS (Posted on 2/13/13 at 1:47 pm to SlowFlowPro)
quote:
i do not think all SS/medicare participants paid in
I thought you had to pay in for social security but I am not sure for medicare.
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SlowFlowPro
Stanford Fan
Equality is a circle, not a =
Member since Jan 2004
263446 posts
| re: Question for those who believe in means testing Medicare/SS (Posted on 2/13/13 at 1:47 pm to lsu13lsu)
it's possible. medicare is the bigger issue anyway
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LSU316
LSU Fan
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Member since Nov 2007
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| re: Question for those who believe in means testing Medicare/SS (Posted on 2/13/13 at 1:51 pm to SlowFlowPro)
quote:
i do not think all SS/medicare participants paid in
Don't you at least have to be married with someone that has at least 40 SS work credits? I think that you have to work like 10 years to get 40....IDK if I'm remembering correctly or not.
ETA To your point I agree medicare is the bigger hog here.
This post was edited on 2/13 at 1:52 pm
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Pilot Tiger 
Georgetown Fan
Washington DC
Member since Nov 2005
50404 posts
| re: Question for those who believe in means testing Medicare/SS (Posted on 2/13/13 at 1:54 pm to LSU316)
quote:
I bet people would be pissed if banks operated like this.....Oh I see you have a savings account with 100K in it, but we also see you have a 401K worth 2 million dollars. We will not be able to give you any money from your savings account but you are welcome to continue contributions. Thank you
great analogy. makes total and complete sense. will read again
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Dr. 3
LSU Fan
Member since Mar 2005
10748 posts
| re: Question for those who believe in means testing Medicare/SS (Posted on 2/13/13 at 1:54 pm to SlowFlowPro)
quote:
i do not think all SS/medicare participants paid in
To me its an insurance policy for those working and cannot return to work for whatever reason. When you file for SSDI, its your date of last insured (i.e. when you last paid into the system) that determines whether you qualify for SS/Medicare. After you reached old age SS, knock yourself out, you earned it.
SSI/Medicaid is means based and requires no payment into the system.
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LSU316
LSU Fan
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Member since Nov 2007
9299 posts
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| re: Question for those who believe in means testing Medicare/SS (Posted on 2/13/13 at 1:58 pm to Pilot Tiger)
quote:
great analogy. makes total and complete sense. will read again
Hey man the government would have us believe that we are giving to social security so that we can have it when we retire. Now of course we know we can't expect a real return on our investment...hell we can't even expect dollar for dollar return. So now you are telling me that if I have some money saved up like a smart individual should when I retire that the government gets to keep all the money I gave them and not just most of it.
That is pretty sad IMO.
Although honestly I don't think this matters anyway because I don't think SS will be around when I'm 65 and whatever replaces it will start over and everything everyone has ever paid to the government for SS up until that point will just go up like smoke.
This post was edited on 2/13 at 2:00 pm
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Pilot Tiger
Georgetown Fan
Washington DC
Member since Nov 2005
50404 posts
| re: Question for those who believe in means testing Medicare/SS (Posted on 2/13/13 at 2:01 pm to LSU316)
quote:
now you are telling me that if I have some money saved up like a smart individual should when I retire that the government gets to keep all the money I gave them and not just most of it.
if you dont make a claim on an insurance policy you dont get all of the premiums you paid back, that's stupid.
If you are smart when you retire and by that time, if they've means tested it and you don't get as much back as you originally would have, too bad. it's going to someone who needs it more.
quote:
Although honestly I don't think this matters anyway becuase I don't think SS will be around when I'm 65
it will be
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LSU316
LSU Fan
Frog City Baby!!!
Member since Nov 2007
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| re: Question for those who believe in means testing Medicare/SS (Posted on 2/13/13 at 2:07 pm to Pilot Tiger)
quote:
if you dont make a claim on an insurance policy you dont get all of the premiums you paid back, that's stupid.
If someone would have told me SS was insurance I would have cancelled my policy a long time ago as I will never ever see a benefit.
quote:
if they've means tested it and you don't get as much back as you originally would have, too bad. it's going to someone who needs it more.
Again this is not what I have been told by my leaders going all the way back to FDR. I was told that they would take care of me when I got old....it never included a "means check". Besides, I willingly and graciously pay taxes to prop up medicaid and welfare for the people that need it more.
This post was edited on 2/13 at 2:10 pm
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Pilot Tiger
Georgetown Fan
Washington DC
Member since Nov 2005
50404 posts
| re: Question for those who believe in means testing Medicare/SS (Posted on 2/13/13 at 2:12 pm to LSU316)
quote:
If someone would have told me SS was insurance
quote:
In the United States, Social Security refers to the Old-Age, Survivors, and Disability Insurance (OASDI) federal program.[1] The original Social Security Act (1935)[2] and the current version of the Act, as amended[3] encompass several social welfare and social insurance programs.
It's not going anywhere. It's here to stay. It needs reform, means testing, removing the cap on contributions, raising the retirement age, etc
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Mac 
Michigan State Fan
The Cajun Dome
Member since Nov 2007
8540 posts
| re: Question for those who believe in means testing Medicare/SS (Posted on 2/13/13 at 2:15 pm to Pilot Tiger)
quote:
It needs reform, means testing, removing the cap on contributions, raising the retirement age, etc
So in your world the wealthy should contribute even more and get nothing when they retire?
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lsusaintsfan4life
LSU Fan
Member since Mar 2008
698 posts
| re: Question for those who believe in means testing Medicare/SS (Posted on 2/13/13 at 2:17 pm to Pilot Tiger)
And we have found a taker.
It's my money pal. My blood,sweat, and tears went into making every dollar I have. I happen to be my favorite charity. If you are so pationate about helping the needy, then by all means do so. No one here will stop you.
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LSU316
LSU Fan
Frog City Baby!!!
Member since Nov 2007
9299 posts
Online
| re: Question for those who believe in means testing Medicare/SS (Posted on 2/13/13 at 2:18 pm to Pilot Tiger)
It may have been insurance in 1935 but today it is a tax and spend program where the government taxes us to get they money under the guise of it will be available when you get old and then spends it on who knows what.
quote:
It needs reform, means testing, removing the cap on contributions, raising the retirement age, etc
Reform is needed without a doubt....but to tell a man that he has to pay more and get less becuase of how big his savings account is is ridiculous. It will propogate the terrible financial decisions that already occur. Raising retirement age and making people that make above the app. 100K mark pay the same 6.2% as everyone else on every dollar I can be for.
This post was edited on 2/13 at 2:20 pm
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Pilot Tiger
Georgetown Fan
Washington DC
Member since Nov 2005
50404 posts
| re: Question for those who believe in means testing Medicare/SS (Posted on 2/13/13 at 2:21 pm to Mac)
quote:
So in your world the wealthy should contribute even more and get nothing when they retire?
when did I ever say they would get nothing?
and how is it "fair" to cap contributions? someone making 100k/yr paying 6.2% of his entire income versus someone making 1million/year who pays virtually the same nominal amount, effectively a much much lower percentage of his income.
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Pilot Tiger
Georgetown Fan
Washington DC
Member since Nov 2005
50404 posts
| re: Question for those who believe in means testing Medicare/SS (Posted on 2/13/13 at 2:23 pm to lsusaintsfan4life)
quote:
And we have found a taker.
It's my money pal. My blood,sweat, and tears went into making every dollar I have. I happen to be my favorite charity. If you are so pationate about helping the needy, then by all means do so. No one here will stop you.
a lot of people work hard, not just you.
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Pilot Tiger
Georgetown Fan
Washington DC
Member since Nov 2005
50404 posts
| re: Question for those who believe in means testing Medicare/SS (Posted on 2/13/13 at 2:23 pm to LSU316)
quote:
Raising retirement age and making people that make above the app. 100K mark pay the same 6.2% as everyone else on every dollar I can be for
common ground 
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lsu13lsu
LSU Fan
Member since Jan 2008
1134 posts
| re: Question for those who believe in means testing Medicare/SS (Posted on 2/13/13 at 4:16 pm to SlowFlowPro)
quote:
i do not think all SS/medicare participants paid in
You are correct. If you are married and never paid in and your spouse who has social security dies then you get their check. So, there are at least some people who have never paid in who get the benefits.
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