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SlowFlowPro 
Stanford Fan
Equality is a circle, not a =
Member since Jan 2004
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| Question for those who believe in means testing Medicare/SS (Posted on 2/12/13 at 9:44 pm)
do you believe that Medicare/SS are not investment or entitlement programs and are regular tax/spend programs of the federal government?
if you do not agree, then how can you deny benefits that these successful seniors "paid in" to the system their entire lives? how can you change the rules of the game after they have entered the system?
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lsu13lsu 
LSU Fan
Member since Jan 2008
1134 posts
| re: Question for those who believe in means testing Medicare/SS (Posted on 2/12/13 at 9:48 pm to SlowFlowPro)
Man, I wish Bush would have gotten SS privatized. People who believe rich people shouldn't get what they paid into the system are thieves.
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SlowFlowPro
Stanford Fan
Equality is a circle, not a =
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| re: Question for those who believe in means testing Medicare/SS (Posted on 2/12/13 at 9:50 pm to lsu13lsu)
quote:
People who believe rich people shouldn't get what they paid into the system are thieves.
well for the record i do not believe in medicare/SS as an entitlement and i don't care what was "paid in"
but, if you're going to single out the rich, you basically have to admit that it's not an entitlement (as i see it) and nobody is actually entitled to that money. if you don't, you're a thief or a hypocrite
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dante
LSU Fan
Kingwood, TX
Member since Mar 2006
2267 posts
| re: Question for those who believe in means testing Medicare/SS (Posted on 2/12/13 at 9:51 pm to SlowFlowPro)
The gov REQUIRES you to pay into the system but at the end of the day they get to decide whether or nor you are allowed to participate in the benefits......makes perfect sense.......give me your money and I might give some back to you.
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NC_Tigah
LSU Fan
Member since Sep 2003
40149 posts
| re: Question for those who believe in means testing Medicare/SS (Posted on 2/12/13 at 10:10 pm to SlowFlowPro)
quote:
if you do not agree, then how can you deny benefits that these successful seniors "paid in" to the system their entire lives? how can you change the rules of the game after they have entered the system?
Because at some point for fortunate seniors, those programs are simply not required or impactful. So "changing the rules" in that case is not a major hit.
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M. A. Ryland
LSU Fan
silver spring, MD
Member since Dec 2005
674 posts
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| re: Question for those who believe in means testing Medicare/SS (Posted on 2/12/13 at 10:56 pm to NC_Tigah)
quote:
Because at some point for fortunate seniors, those programs are simply not required or impactful. So "changing the rules" in that case is not a major hit.
Ah... the "He has enough money, so let's take some" argument.
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LSUconvert
LSU Fan
Clackamas, Or
Member since Aug 2007
442 posts
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| re: Question for those who believe in means testing Medicare/SS (Posted on 2/12/13 at 10:57 pm to dante)
quote:
give me your money and I might give some back to you.
Get a credit rating equivalent to the united states.
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Wally Sparks 
Louisville Fan
Atlanta
Member since Feb 2013
2095 posts
| re: Question for those who believe in means testing Medicare/SS (Posted on 2/12/13 at 10:59 pm to M. A. Ryland)
quote:
Ah... the "He has enough money, so let's take some" argument.
Remember, to lib-tards it's not your money it's the government's.
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Tigah in the ATL
LSU Fan
Atlanta
Member since Feb 2005
20654 posts
| re: Question for those who believe in means testing Medicare/SS (Posted on 2/12/13 at 11:00 pm to SlowFlowPro)
quote:
do you believe that Medicare/SS are not investment or entitlement programs and are regular tax/spend programs of the federal government?
it's a social service paid for with a tax.
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Zed 
Alabama Fan
Member since Feb 2010
5723 posts
| re: Question for those who believe in means testing Medicare/SS (Posted on 2/13/13 at 1:01 am to SlowFlowPro)
quote:
do you believe that Medicare/SS are not investment or entitlement programs
They were intended to be and to an extent still are. Social Security is I believe still funded almost entirely by payroll taxes, Medicare I believe requires significant additional revenue. I think at some point we can acknowledge everyone isn't putting in what they're getting out of those programs, Medicare especially. The idea that Medicare especially is an earned entitlement seems increasingly antiquated.
This post was edited on 2/13 at 1:05 am
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cssamerican 
New Orleans Saints Fan
Member since Mar 2011
1769 posts
| re: Question for those who believe in means testing Medicare/SS (Posted on 2/13/13 at 1:32 am to Zed)
The amount we pay in SS is easily a retirement system. Medicare is a small tax associated with a huge program that is basically a handout to the elderly. For it to be owed to anyone the contribution would have to be a lot greater than what it is, anyone should be able to see that.
I am against means testing simply because our government constantly rewards takers and in many ways punishes the people who worked hard. If you paid the taxes you should be the last one that loses the benefits IMO.
This post was edited on 2/13 at 1:37 am
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SlowFlowPro
Stanford Fan
Equality is a circle, not a =
Member since Jan 2004
263439 posts
Online
| re: Question for those who believe in means testing Medicare/SS (Posted on 2/13/13 at 9:12 am to NC_Tigah)
quote:
Because at some point for fortunate seniors, those programs are simply not required or impactful. So "changing the rules" in that case is not a major hit.
but philosophically, that argument states, "we just taxed you. your 'contributions' were not "contributions."
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LSU316
LSU Fan
Frog City Baby!!!
Member since Nov 2007
9299 posts
| re: Question for those who believe in means testing Medicare/SS (Posted on 2/13/13 at 9:53 am to SlowFlowPro)
Indeed....which is why SS should be considered for cuts just as it is considered for tax increases.
However when it comes to cuts it is an entitilement that can't be touched......but when it comes to money to pay for it well hell thats not a contribution that you should expect anything back from....it's just a tax.
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NC_Tigah
LSU Fan
Member since Sep 2003
40149 posts
| re: Question for those who believe in means testing Medicare/SS (Posted on 2/13/13 at 10:25 am to M. A. Ryland)
quote:
Ah... the "He has enough money, so let's take some" argument.
meh, in this case the "He" I had in mind was me.
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MFn GIMP
LSU Fan
Somerset, Kentucky
Member since Feb 2011
7015 posts
| re: Question for those who believe in means testing Medicare/SS (Posted on 2/13/13 at 10:27 am to LSU316)
quote:
However when it comes to cuts it is an entitilement that can't be touched......but when it comes to money to pay for it well hell thats not a contribution that you should expect anything back from....it's just a tax.
It's almost like that came from the twisted mind of John Roberts.
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Pilot Tiger 
Georgetown Fan
Washington DC
Member since Nov 2005
50404 posts
| re: Question for those who believe in means testing Medicare/SS (Posted on 2/13/13 at 10:28 am to SlowFlowPro)
it's insurance that working people pay
if/when you need it, it should be there for you
if you do not need it, congrats to you and thank you
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lsu13lsu
LSU Fan
Member since Jan 2008
1134 posts
| re: Question for those who believe in means testing Medicare/SS (Posted on 2/13/13 at 10:33 am to SlowFlowPro)
quote:
but, if you're going to single out the rich, you basically have to admit that it's not an entitlement (as i see it) and nobody is actually entitled to that money. if you don't, you're a thief or a hypocrite
I am not following you here or really at all. I am not sure if I am just not privy some other discussions you have had or you just flippantly posted this and the OP. I generally follow your thoughts on here, fwiw.
With that said, I think anyone who pays into the system should be entitled to it. Rich or poor or middle. They should only be entitled to their share of it including gains and losses. There should not be some mandatory amount given out creating debt.
This post was edited on 2/13 at 10:34 am
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NC_Tigah
LSU Fan
Member since Sep 2003
40149 posts
| re: Question for those who believe in means testing Medicare/SS (Posted on 2/13/13 at 10:36 am to SlowFlowPro)
quote:
but philosophically, that argument states, "we just taxed you. your 'contributions' were not "contributions."
Indeed.
My greater concern though is a tendency for tax increases to drift toward the population's economic mean, realizing middle class impact. In the case of Medicare/SS that would be wholly unacceptable for reasons you laid out.
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Zach
LSU Fan
Member since May 2005
55407 posts
| re: Question for those who believe in means testing Medicare/SS (Posted on 2/13/13 at 10:43 am to SlowFlowPro)
The logic works like this. John is forced to pay into SS to the tune of 100K during his working life. At 65 retires with a net worth of 2M. So, the means testers say "Sorry, you don't get any SS because you really don't need it."
By that logic why shouldn't rich people have to pay double for food, clothes, gas, etc.? You could have two debit/credit cards. One labeled 'rich' and the other labeled 'middle class'. When you buy gas you have to use the 'rich' pump and pay double price.
Unfair? Not at all. The rich can afford it.
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LSU316
LSU Fan
Frog City Baby!!!
Member since Nov 2007
9299 posts
| re: Question for those who believe in means testing Medicare/SS (Posted on 2/13/13 at 11:30 am to Pilot Tiger)
quote:
if you do not need it, congrats to you and thank you
I bet people would be pissed if banks operated like this.....Oh I see you have a savings account with 100K in it, but we also see you have a 401K worth 2 million dollars. We will not be able to give you any money from your savings account but you are welcome to continue contributions. Thank you.
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