Regardless of whether you believe in the legitimacy of IP or not | Page 2 | TigerDroppings.com
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WikiTiger
LSU Fan
Member since Sep 2007
40721 posts

re: Regardless of whether you believe in the legitimacy of IP or not

quote:

can i get an explanation for why this type of property is invalid IYV? no video links pls


There's good literature out there on it. Can't link now because i'm on my phone


Essentially, we just reject the notion that information is actual property


joshnorris14
Florida Fan
Florida
Member since Jan 2009
21472 posts

re: Regardless of whether you believe in the legitimacy of IP or not
quote:

Are you saying people dont own their labor and the information they may create?


People own their labor. You can't own information.

quote:

If IP doesn't exist, why would anyone want to develop a cure for cancer or new biofuels technology or (insert something we want but don't have here)???


Why would people develop free open source software? I don't know, but they have.


90proofprofessional
LSU Fan
Member since Mar 2004
10960 posts
Online

re: Regardless of whether you believe in the legitimacy of IP or not
quote:

You can't own information.

if the information is something you created at great personal expense, and not for charitable purposes, you might feel differently.


joshnorris14
Florida Fan
Florida
Member since Jan 2009
21472 posts

re: Regardless of whether you believe in the legitimacy of IP or not
quote:

if the information is something you created at great personal expense, and not for charitable purposes, you might feel differently.


Or you might not. You act as though there aren't people that go through great lengths to put out quality material who also reject the notion of intellectual property.


WizardSleeve
Louisiana
Member since Sep 2011
766 posts

re: Regardless of whether you believe in the legitimacy of IP or not
quote:

Why would people develop free open source software? I don't know, but they have.


Same reason why charity hospitals exist. The software is still valuable even if the developer decides to make them free for the greater good. You didn't answer my question.

Why would anyone exert their own labor to creating new technology if there wasn't some incentive, finacial or otherwise?

If you assert people don't own the technology created via their labor, you're asserting they don't own their labor. Cmon man.


joshnorris14
Florida Fan
Florida
Member since Jan 2009
21472 posts

re: Regardless of whether you believe in the legitimacy of IP or not
quote:

Why would anyone exert their own labor to creating new technology if there wasn't some incentive, finacial or otherwise?


They wouldn't, but that's irrelevant. It's possible to have incentive without IP.

quote:

If you assert people don't own the technology created via their labor, you're asserting they don't own their labor. Cmon man.


I guess that depends on what you mean by "labor". If I design a chair, I own the chair. I don't own the design of that chair.


ForeLSU
LSU Fan
The Corner of Sanity and Madness
Member since Sep 2003
35071 posts
Online

re: Regardless of whether you believe in the legitimacy of IP or not
I'm mixed on the subject...

from an Internet perspective, many of the patents are ridiculous, and I blame the patent office for granting some of this crap to begin with. The fact that I can take some open-source stuff, add some customization, and violate someone's patent regarding putting a phrase in italics below an image is absurd. (just an example of the absurdity, not sure if that is an actual patent)

On the other hand, I do have sympathy for true content producers (artists, programmers, etc.) who are trying to make a living, and clearly state the terms and conditions of the transaction, having their stuff spread around freely. I personally consider it stealing and don't participate. It's especially disgusting when someone uses the material to profit without compensating the original author of the works.

At the end of the day though, open source business models are the wave of the future. Lock-in schemes are going the way of dinosaurs...


joshnorris14
Florida Fan
Florida
Member since Jan 2009
21472 posts

re: Regardless of whether you believe in the legitimacy of IP or not
quote:


On the other hand, I do have sympathy for true content producers (artists, programmers, etc.) who are trying to make a living, and clearly state the terms and conditions of the transaction, having their stuff spread around freely.


Artists (Especially music artists) have very much benefited for the crumbling of IP in the music industry. It allows them to connect the fans without needing major label backing which absorbs much of their income.


90proofprofessional
LSU Fan
Member since Mar 2004
10960 posts
Online

re: Regardless of whether you believe in the legitimacy of IP or not
quote:

You act as though there aren't people that go through great lengths to put out quality material who also reject the notion of intellectual property

if your example of 'quality material' is wikipedia and open-source software, it's not exactly a great counter to stuff like iOS (restrictive as it is), cutting-edge medical knowledge, or advances in computing hardware


ForeLSU
LSU Fan
The Corner of Sanity and Madness
Member since Sep 2003
35071 posts
Online

re: Regardless of whether you believe in the legitimacy of IP or not
quote:

I guess that depends on what you mean by "labor". If I design a chair, I own the chair. I don't own the design of that chair.


so only physical works have value, not intellectual works? why the distinction?


joshnorris14
Florida Fan
Florida
Member since Jan 2009
21472 posts

re: Regardless of whether you believe in the legitimacy of IP or not
quote:

so only physical works have value, not intellectual works? why the distinction?


Someone who uses that design doesn't deprive me of the chair that I made.


ForeLSU
LSU Fan
The Corner of Sanity and Madness
Member since Sep 2003
35071 posts
Online

re: Regardless of whether you believe in the legitimacy of IP or not
quote:

Artists (Especially music artists) have very much benefited for the crumbling of IP in the music industry. It allows them to connect the fans without needing major label backing which absorbs much of their income.


labels are distribution channels, that has nothing to do with IP.


NC_Tigah
LSU Fan
Member since Sep 2003
57269 posts
Online

re: Regardless of whether you believe in the legitimacy of IP or not
quote:

Well I don't agree in the existence of intellectual property
So no copyrights? No patents? No incentivizing creativity?

Irrelevance of intellectual property equates to irrelevance of creativity, potential, and property in general. Your choice to ignore that does not affect relevance in any way.

Should you choose to ignore well deserved IP protections to an extent noticeable by the author, your risk reward ratio will become less palatable. If/when you arrive at that point, you will honor intellectual property. You will honor it, or you will pay significantly more for your decision not to.

The latter speaks directly to relevance.


This post was edited on 2/4 at 10:21 pm


WikiTiger
LSU Fan
Member since Sep 2007
40721 posts

re: Regardless of whether you believe in the legitimacy of IP or not
quote:

wikipedia and open-source software, it's not exactly a great counter 


So the greatest collection of knowledge in the world and the most secure and stable operating system in the world aren't great counters?


joshnorris14
Florida Fan
Florida
Member since Jan 2009
21472 posts

re: Regardless of whether you believe in the legitimacy of IP or not
quote:

labels are distribution channels, that has nothing to do with IP.


Been to Youtube lately?


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joshnorris14
Florida Fan
Florida
Member since Jan 2009
21472 posts

re: Regardless of whether you believe in the legitimacy of IP or not
quote:

So the greatest collection of knowledge in the world and the most secure and stable operating system in the world aren't great counters?


But iOS man!


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90proofprofessional
LSU Fan
Member since Mar 2004
10960 posts
Online

re: Regardless of whether you believe in the legitimacy of IP or not
quote:

It's possible to have incentive without IP.

true

but the point where ip can be good is by making the incentive to innovate somewhat bigger, to bring more of it. there's a cost there in competition to be sure, but it is by law only temporary

i can see legit disagreement over whether it's worth the cost on net, but the notion of ip not being a legit type of property seems arbitrary and hypocritical


joshnorris14
Florida Fan
Florida
Member since Jan 2009
21472 posts

re: Regardless of whether you believe in the legitimacy of IP or not
quote:

but the point where ip can be good is by making the incentive to innovate somewhat bigger


It makes the incentive to innovate smaller. It promotes laziness.

If you invent something in the current system, you can live off of that success.

If you invent something in a system without IP, you have a small first in the market advantage and are compelled into constant innovation by competitors.


NC_Tigah
LSU Fan
Member since Sep 2003
57269 posts
Online

re: Regardless of whether you believe in the legitimacy of IP or not
quote:

So the greatest collection of knowledge in the world and the most secure and stable operating system in the world aren't great counters?
Not in the least.

Wikipedia controls information placed there, and Wiki cites EVERYTHING. IOW, Wiki thoroughly honors IP


WizardSleeve
Louisiana
Member since Sep 2011
766 posts

re: Regardless of whether you believe in the legitimacy of IP or not
quote:

It's possible to have incentive without IP.


Exactly.

quote:

If I design a chair, I own the chair. I don't own the design of that chair.


Yes, you do.

I'm sorry you want everyone to tell you what they know for free, but most people do not want to let others freely benefit from something that may have taken them countless hours of their labor to learn or develop.

If incentive doesnt exist, the fundamentals of economics and human behavior don't exist.


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