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DeltaDoc 
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| Thoughts On Boy Scouts Changing Stance Relative to Homosexuals? (Posted on 2/4/13 at 4:01 pm)
quote:
The Boy Scouts of America announcement last week that it may eliminate the exclusion of gays from membership at the national level, leaving the decision to its local units, has drawn a harsh backlash from some of the organization's more religious conservative members, who are "gravely distressed," even as more liberal churches hailed the move.
quote:
"I think it’s clear that the Scouts have made a sea change in who they are and that down the road they will be a different organization than they are today,” said Roger “Sing” Oldham, spokesman for the conservative Southern Baptist Convention. Frank S. Page, head of the convention's Executive Committee, urged for a prayer be held among congregations on Sunday that the board members would not allow gays.
“I think there are a lot of parents and students who will make the decision to look for other organizations that are more in line with the principles that they espouse,” he said.
The Scouts' board meeting starts today, and a decision on the gay ban is expected Wednesday.
quote:
The Scouting movement has heavy involvement from religious groups, with The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, the United Methodist Church and the Catholic Church together sponsoring more than 1 million Scouts, according to Boy Scouts data for 2011. Overall, faith-based groups sponsored nearly 70 percent of the more than 100,000 Scouting units that year, compared with civic organizations backing 23 percent and educational outfits 8 percent.
In the Scout Oath, youth pledge to do their "duty to God," and the organization holds special celebrations in tandem with churches, such as “Scout Sunday,” just ahead of the Feb. 8 anniversary of the founding of the Boy Scouts in 1910.
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Should the scouts make this change and what are the advantages and disadvantages?
I can foresee one glaring disadvantage right out of the gate being that churches will either discontinue support for scout troops altogether, or religous parents will not allow their children to participate...meaning that the money stream that is vital to keep scouts alive dries up.
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kingbob
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St. Amant, LA
Member since Nov 2010
8979 posts
| re: Thoughts On Boy Scouts Changing Stance Relative to Homosexuals? (Posted on 2/4/13 at 4:03 pm to DeltaDoc)
This seems like it opens a whole pandora's box of liabilities. This is going to cause the insurance rates for troops to go through the roof.
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GumboPot
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| re: Thoughts On Boy Scouts Changing Stance Relative to Homosexuals? (Posted on 2/4/13 at 4:04 pm to DeltaDoc)
quote:
I can foresee one glaring disadvantage right out of the gate being that churches will either discontinue support for scout troops altogether, or religous parents will not allow their children to participate...meaning that the money stream that is vital to keep scouts alive dries up.
Right and current Boy Scouts affiliated with churches will likely form other boys and girls clubs.
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Rickety Cricket 
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| re: Thoughts On Boy Scouts Changing Stance Relative to Homosexuals? (Posted on 2/4/13 at 4:04 pm to DeltaDoc)
Private organizations should rightfully choose who they want to admit.
quote:
I can foresee one glaring disadvantage right out of the gate being that churches will either discontinue support for scout troops altogether, or religous parents will not allow their children to participate...meaning that the money stream that is vital to keep scouts alive dries up.
Makes sense. Stopping the support of a worth-while organization because it doesn't hold the same archaic views of someone's private sexual orientation.
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Placebeaux
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| re: Thoughts On Boy Scouts Changing Stance Relative to Homosexuals? (Posted on 2/4/13 at 4:06 pm to DeltaDoc)
They can do what the frick they want, just dont look for my son to join and dont look for me to donate a damn thing.
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kingbob
LSU Fan
St. Amant, LA
Member since Nov 2010
8979 posts
| re: Thoughts On Boy Scouts Changing Stance Relative to Homosexuals? (Posted on 2/4/13 at 4:13 pm to DeltaDoc)
The real question is why did schools kick Boy Scout and Cub Scout troops out 10 years ago? So Atheists can have an organization meet on school grounds but the Boy Scouts can't? Are the schools going to change this policy so scout troops, which were often aligned with schools, can go back there now that they allow gays?
No, they won't. The pressure was all about destroying scouting. One of the last large youth organizations that promotes conservative values and christian ethics. The pressure from the gay community was designed to convince them to change their stance, opening them up to this huge perceived liability, which will bankrupt troops financially through potential lawsuits and insurance while alienating their sponsors, which are now primarily religious organizations. Seeing their costs rise, their membership stagnant, and their sponsors drying up, one of the last great youth clubs will shrivel and die. I guess being trustworthy, loyal, helpful, friendly, courteous, kind, obedient, cheerful, brave, thrifty, clean, and reverent is just un-American these days.
This post was edited on 2/4 at 4:18 pm
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PhoenixLSUTiger
LSU Fan
Phoenix, AZ
Member since Dec 2007
663 posts
| re: Thoughts On Boy Scouts Changing Stance Relative to Homosexuals? (Posted on 2/4/13 at 4:17 pm to Placebeaux)
quote:
They can do what the frick they want, just dont look for my son to join and dont look for me to donate a damn thing.
You have helped already by not exposing others to your little feeble one celled brain.
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Broketec
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| re: Thoughts On Boy Scouts Changing Stance Relative to Homosexuals? (Posted on 2/4/13 at 4:25 pm to kingbob)
quote:
The real question is why did schools kick Boy Scout and Cub Scout troops out 10 years ago?
quote:
One of the last large youth organizations that promotes conservative values and christian ethics.
You answered your own question....
Fairy tales and ghost stories have no place in a place of education.
If you want christian ethics for your kid, send 'em to Sunday school.
If the boy scouts are promoting as much jebus and gawd as they are promoting how to tie a knot and start a fire with sticks, then they don't belong.
But then again, I'm one of those athiests who got to participate in non-religious organizations that met on school grounds. So I never joined the scouts.
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Jimbeaux
LSU Fan
New Orleans
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| re: Thoughts On Boy Scouts Changing Stance Relative to Homosexuals? (Posted on 2/4/13 at 4:27 pm to DeltaDoc)
The truth is that the Boy Scouts have known all along that there are gay members and gay leaders. They have always had an unofficial "don't ask, don't tell" policy. The matter was almost always handled on the local troop level.
Let's face it, most boys under the age of 18 are not sexually active, and they are mostly not announcing that they are gay at that age either.
Here's another cold reality. In most populations that a Boy Scout troop would draw members from, the boys in that population have choices to make regarding the activities they want to partticipate in. Many find that there's not enough time to be active in Scouts AND be active in sports. It's quite common for Troops to have a higher concentration of boys who are less athletic. Among these groups of "less athletic" friends, you will usually find a higher concentration of boys who are gay.
The boys who are gay often find more acceptance in Scouts than in most other boy activities. Scout leaders are well aware of this. It's mostly an unspoken secret among leaders who help socially awkward teens, many who are gay, to find friendship and acceptance and a feeling of accomplishment in scouting. The achievements are REAL achievements and the boys are right to be proud of themselves.
It's really such a delicate balance that an organization that is so well suited to help awkward and self-doubting teens into manhood has to be so careful to not be perceived as "gay friendly".
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joshnorris14 
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| re: Thoughts On Boy Scouts Changing Stance Relative to Homosexuals? (Posted on 2/4/13 at 4:28 pm to Jimbeaux)
Zero fricks given.
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kingbob
LSU Fan
St. Amant, LA
Member since Nov 2010
8979 posts
| re: Thoughts On Boy Scouts Changing Stance Relative to Homosexuals? (Posted on 2/4/13 at 4:36 pm to joshnorris14)
But that's the thing, they don't evangelize, ever! They just say be reverent. "Do a good turn daily" is based on the practices of Jesus. Just because you take the good messages of Christianity and apply it to an organization for young men and boys doesn't mean that you're a group of hateful bible thumpers who goes around protesting science and condemning people to hell. Just because the boy scouts teach ethics from a monotheistic judeo-christian background shouldn't mean that a school can't choose to allow them to meet there.
There are Jewish scouts, there are Muslim scouts, why does it matter? Why? Because most are Christians who promote good morals and that has no place in American society any more.
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Placebeaux
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| re: Thoughts On Boy Scouts Changing Stance Relative to Homosexuals? (Posted on 2/4/13 at 4:38 pm to Jimbeaux)
quote:
Let's face it, most boys under the age of 18 are not sexually active, and they are mostly not announcing that they are gay at that age either
I don't think so.
quote:
Here's another cold reality. In most populations that a Boy Scout troop would draw members from, the boys in that population have choices to make regarding the activities they want to partticipate in. Many find that there's not enough time to be active in Scouts AND be active in sports. It's quite common for Troops to have a higher concentration of boys who are less athletic. Among these groups of "less athletic" friends, you will usually find a higher concentration of boys who are gay.
A lot gays like to stay in shape. Not all gays are the "sissy type" like you are trying to sterotype.
Here is my beef with the gays in the scouts. We live in a dangerous world. If the scouts are going to allow open gay members it opens the door to the Sandusky types flooding the scouts. Now I'm not saying all gays are Sanduskys but all Sanduskys are gay.
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DeltaDoc
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| re: Thoughts On Boy Scouts Changing Stance Relative to Homosexuals? (Posted on 2/4/13 at 4:41 pm to joshnorris14)
One issue appears to be the presumption by some like Broketec, that religous institutions and the things that they support are: (1) Unless, and/or (2) easily replaced as well as (3) will be replaced by something of equal or greater value.
In essence, distain for religion, IMO, has clouded critical thinking skills in presumptions about the reality of situations and consequence.
Is it the right thing to do (allow practicing homosexuals in open fashion)? Maybe so. Will it ultimately hurt and even kill the Boy Scout movement from what it is currently and has been? Most assuredly.
Therefore, you are balancing what is better for society.
In that striking that balance, overreaching is very possible...in essence, the unintended (yet) intended consequence.
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Rickety Cricket
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| re: Thoughts On Boy Scouts Changing Stance Relative to Homosexuals? (Posted on 2/4/13 at 4:42 pm to Placebeaux)
quote:
Here is my beef with the gays in the scouts. We live in a dangerous world. If the scouts are going to allow open gay members it opens the door to the Sandusky types flooding the scouts. Now I'm not saying all gays are Sanduskys but all Sanduskys are gay.
You do know that Sandusky was married and a closet pedo, right?
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uway 
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15933 posts
| re: Thoughts On Boy Scouts Changing Stance Relative to Homosexuals? (Posted on 2/4/13 at 4:43 pm to Rickety Cricket)
quote:
Stopping the support of a worth-while organization because it doesn't hold the same archaic views of someone's private sexual orientation.
It's (quite obviously) an issue of morality. Some people still believe it's morally illicit for men to have sex with each other, even if they do it in private. That doesn't mean they should be charged with a crime, but it could certainly mean that you don't want them taking your little boy camping and teaching them about life.
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RhodeIslandRed
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| re: Thoughts On Boy Scouts Changing Stance Relative to Homosexuals? (Posted on 2/4/13 at 4:44 pm to DeltaDoc)
Let the log jammers form their own organization.
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uway
USA Fan
Member since Sep 2004
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| re: Thoughts On Boy Scouts Changing Stance Relative to Homosexuals? (Posted on 2/4/13 at 4:44 pm to Rickety Cricket)
quote:
You do know that Sandusky was married and a closet pedo, right?
nm, you are saying he wouldn't have been barred from the scouts b/c he didn't claim to be gay
This post was edited on 2/4 at 4:46 pm
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DeltaDoc
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| re: Thoughts On Boy Scouts Changing Stance Relative to Homosexuals? (Posted on 2/4/13 at 4:44 pm to Rickety Cricket)
quote:
You do know that Sandusky was married and a closet pedo, right?
and he was gay.
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Placebeaux
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| re: Thoughts On Boy Scouts Changing Stance Relative to Homosexuals? (Posted on 2/4/13 at 4:47 pm to DeltaDoc)
quote:
In essence, distain for religion, IMO, has clouded critical thinking skills in presumptions about the reality of situations and consequence.
This is very true when it comes to the voucher program Bobby Jindal has started. A lot of people are so mad that their taxes are going to teaching creationism that they are blind to the other worse ramifications it will have.
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HailHailtoMichigan! 
Michigan Fan
Mission Viejo, CA
Member since Mar 2012
5176 posts
| re: Thoughts On Boy Scouts Changing Stance Relative to Homosexuals? (Posted on 2/4/13 at 4:48 pm to DeltaDoc)
It's a private organization making a personal choice. I'm fine with that.
I don't think it's a smart choice, considering what being a boy scout means and what the organization's purpose is.
Also, it is a sign that urban values (or lack thereof) are creeping into our conservative rural and suburban areas.
I will be very unhappy to see this country reflect urban morals.
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