For the old-timers...when did Cholly Mac first get on the hot seat? - Page 3 - TigerDroppings.com

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deaconscholar
LSU Fan
Atlanta
Member since Nov 2008
78 posts

re: For the old-timers...when did Cholly Mac first get on the hot seat?


Today's Negatigers who are always down on Les Miles are probably too young to remember Coach McLendon. I graduated in 1968 and clearly remember the constant chant to get rid of him and get a real winner. I admit being one of them. When it finally happened we certainly traded up: Mike Archer, Garry DiNardo, Curly Hallmann. Sometimes we get what we deserve. I, for one, regret being so critical of Coach McLendon - a winner and fine man. Sound familiar?





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LCTigers69
LSU Fan
Member since Nov 2010
139 posts

re: For the old-timers...when did Cholly Mac first get on the hot seat?


When Paul Dietzel returned as AD in 1979 ... Mac's fate was sealed. Remember, when Dietzel left LSU for Army in 1962, he did not recommend McClendon as his successor. It's no secret that the 2 men did not get along ... 2 very different personalities. Mac almost took a job at KY, but was given a pay raise to stay at LSU and take over as head coach.

Through 1970, Mac was in very good standing with fans and the administration. He was offered a very lucrative contract by Texas A&M in 1971 to succeed Gene Stallings. He instead stayed at LSU and was given a nice pay increase.

In 1971, Bama switched to the wishbone. Mac, who had beaten Bear's teams in 1969 and 1970, would never do so again. The inability to beat Bama in games in big-time conference showdown games, especially 1972 and 1973, began to erode his support. The switch to the veer proved unsuccessful.

Just as important to the decline of the program was recruiting. The name that doesn't get mentioned, but had a tremendous impact on Mac being forced to leave was his inability to recruit Johnny Hector to LSU. Hector was a legend at New Iberia, but chose to go to Texas A&M instead of LSU. This, coupled with 9 straight losses to Alabama, was the end for Mac. His teams in the late 70's were good ... but far from great. They made 3 straight bowl games, but the team was barely top 20 caliber. His teams went from being "very good" in the late 60's and early 70's to being "good" or "competitive" in the late 70's. He wasn't getting as many star recruits, and the fan base wanted a change.






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alajones
LSU Fan
Hell
Member since Oct 2005
21730 posts

re: For the old-timers...when did Cholly Mac first get on the hot seat?


My dad and uncle played for CM. The QB was an issue, plus somehow, Mac alienated northwest LA. LSU would always win one game they had no business winning, lose one they had no business losing, and go 8-3.







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jhhingle
LSU Fan
New Orleans
Member since Oct 2007
1928 posts

re: For the old-timers...when did Cholly Mac first get on the hot seat?


All good synopses as I recall growing up with his teams in 60's and early 70's were respected very good, then when my tenure in TT (74-79) mostly just competative and not outstanding. Some watershed games I remember; the loss to Arch in 69, if all things equal could have played for MNC, the Gumps 72 & 73 as mentioned, of course the "great" loss to USC will always be C Mac's swansong!





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jcb236
LSU Fan
Cut Off, LA
Member since Feb 2010
483 posts

re: For the old-timers...when did Cholly Mac first get on the hot seat?


My first game was in 1965 when we beat Tulane 62-0. I was seventeen. I do remember those years sitting in the south end zone starting in 1971 up until now. We won some great games, but we never left the stadium with the great feeling that we were "on our way." Bert Jones sharing playing time was no plus for Charlie McClendon. The two qb system insured that everyone was critical because someone always wanted the other guy playing. Couple all these things to "three yards and a cloud of dust" lackluster offense seemingly run by guys who refused to change, and you had the recipe for dissension and criticism. A very critical game in this thread would have to be the LSU-USC game. That game took a lot out of the Tigers. Here are a few of the USC players and you will get an idea of how good they were.

Marcus Allen
Jeff Fisher
Ronnie Lott
Charles White
Bruce Matthews
Dennis Smith
Chip Banks
Anthony Munoz
Keith Van Horne
Joey Browner

Go here for a quick read of the game. LINK

And after we got rid of Cholly Mac, we had some momentary successes in a few seasons, but we got Archer, Hallman, and Dinardo. During the 80s and 90s, it was incredibly painful to watch. Be careful what you wish for. I think of this often when I hear about "Miles is the worst coach I have ever seen." Before every game we should put the "highlights" of our losses from those two decades up on the big screen for the fans to reminisce about.

Charlie McClendon proved to me to be a better person than we probably all imagined. He was a gentleman, and he was respected by many in the coaching ranks. He looked to have a better life after LSU than he had while here. He served as the executive director of the American Football Coaches Association for many years. I do regret being as critical of him as I was.






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Nuts4LSU
LSU Fan
Washington, DC
Member since Oct 2003
18174 posts

re: For the old-timers...when did Cholly Mac first get on the hot seat?


quote:

I know he couldn't beat Bear Bryant, and that played a major part


If that had played a major part, he would have been fired LONG before his EIGHTEENTH season and compiling a 2-14 record against him. Truth is, LSU admins back then were just as happy to play second fiddle to Alabama and Bryant as our current ones are to play second fiddle to Alabama and Saban.

quote:

Was it the 1974 and 1975 seasons that were the beginning of the end?


I was still pretty new to LSU football at that time, but that was when I first started hearing people complaining about him.

One thing is for sure. Not beating Alabama had little or nothing to do with it. LSU fans back then were just like the majority of them are now: happy to sometimes finish second to Alabama, never feel deserving of finishing #1. As our AD has plainly stated, it's not about winning championships, it's about almost winning them.






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nycajun
LSU Fan
Nothin' could be finer.....
Member since Dec 2004
17339 posts

re: For the old-timers...when did Cholly Mac first get on the hot seat?


There have been many areas in which our society has advanced in the last 40 years. Computers. Telecommunications. Race relations. But the moronic attitude of the typical LSU fan who believes that salvation and perfection are just one coaching change (or quarterback change) away has been the same since time immemorial, except when it has gotten worse. I've been an LSU fan since the Dietzel era. McClendon, as the guy who replaced our first national championship coach, was under fire from day 1.





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Jim Rockford
LSU Fan
Member since May 2011
33300 posts

re: For the old-timers...when did Cholly Mac first get on the hot seat?


quote:

It's always been like that at LSU. And I am serious. Different forums and amount of "want him gones" but some folks were not happy from the start


Saban's genius was he treated the fans like shite from the get-go. And in a cringing, whipped-dog kind of way, the beta males among the fan base respected him for it.






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Nuts4LSU
LSU Fan
Washington, DC
Member since Oct 2003
18174 posts

re: For the old-timers...when did Cholly Mac first get on the hot seat?


quote:

And after we got rid of Cholly Mac, we had some momentary successes in a few seasons


In the nine seasons after we got rid of Cholly Mac, we did better than we did in the last nine seasons he was here. More SEC titles, more bowls, more major bowls, better overall record, better SEC record, etc. Everything got better after Mac left for almost a decade, but then...

quote:

but we got Archer, Hallman, and Dinardo.


That started eight years after Mac was gone, and the real dark ages didn't start until ten years after. Firing McClendon had nothing to do with it. He would have been long retired by then anyway. It was the idiotic decision to have a moronic faculty committee hire Mike Archer as a replacement for Bill Arnsparger while we didn't have a permanent AD that caused the downfall of LSU football, and apparently set the standard by which all future LSU coaches are to be judged.






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Nuts4LSU
LSU Fan
Washington, DC
Member since Oct 2003
18174 posts

re: For the old-timers...when did Cholly Mac first get on the hot seat?


quote:

I graduated in 1968 and clearly remember the constant chant to get rid of him and get a real winner. I admit being one of them. When it finally happened we certainly traded up: Mike Archer, Garry DiNardo, Curly Hallmann


Sounds like you are starting to suffer from Alzheimers. You seem to have missed about 8 years there.






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aroussel3Tigers
LSU Fan
Member since Mar 2009
4885 posts

re: For the old-timers...when did Cholly Mac first get on the hot seat?


quote:

Yep. Not playing the right QB. Can't win the big one. etc. etc.
this

I remember him taking heat for the Woodly/Ensminger combo.

When I was a kid, Kentucky kicked our arse for homecoming.... Help Mac Pack chants started. The end was near.






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dukke v
UCLA Fan
PLUTO
Member since Jul 2006
122932 posts

re: For the old-timers...when did Cholly Mac first get on the hot seat?


I will say this. Charlie MAC coached LSU to some of its most memerabile games in school history. ND in 1971 comes to mind. YES he was an 8-3 9-3 kind of coach, But the stakes were NOT THAT high at that time[compared to now]. There are people out there that STILL think the 1969 LSU team was the BEST EVER. The D gave up only like 454 yds rushing the WHOLE season. A remarkable feat with the way teams RAN the ball so much back then.





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rbdallas
LSU Fan
The BGO Store
Member since Nov 2007
5619 posts

re: For the old-timers...when did Cholly Mac first get on the hot seat?


Mac could not beat Bama...that with the fact that the STYLE of the game was changing and he would not was the reason....and he was losing support due to recruiting and from the AD

Very similar in THOUGHT PROCESS to Tom Landry and same results






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1984Tiger
LSU Fan
North Carolina
Member since Apr 2006
5010 posts

re: For the old-timers...when did Cholly Mac first get on the hot seat?


quote:

I do regret being as critical of him as I was.

Those that don't learn from history are destined to repeat it ...






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dukke v
UCLA Fan
PLUTO
Member since Jul 2006
122932 posts

re: For the old-timers...when did Cholly Mac first get on the hot seat?


quote:

and he was losing support due to recruiting and from the AD


He brought in some decent recruits. The 1980 team that Stovall coached was 7-4. He recruited [at the time] the BEST LSU RB EVER in Charles Alexander.Tommy Casanova, Bert Jones,Carlos carson,






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Fat Man
LSU Fan
Covington, Atlanta, Winston-Salem
Member since Jan 2006
6392 posts

re: For the old-timers...when did Cholly Mac first get on the hot seat?


In '76 (when I arrived) the seat was pretty hot.

After 3 running plays and no first down, the cheer was "Up the middle, up the middle, up the middle: Punt" usually followed by "Help Mac Pack."

A acquaitance of mine sent a moving van to his house; he also dropped off a couple of dozen of suitcases in Mac's front yard.

kids, kids, kids.






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DaSaltyTiger
LSU Fan
Alexandria/Pineville, LA area
Member since Dec 2004
4689 posts

re: For the old-timers...when did Cholly Mac first get on the hot seat?


Yeah, Mac always had his critics. However, he junked the walking I in favor of the veer as it suited Mike Miley. Everyone was convinced that we were on our way to a NC. However, Miley then signed a pro baseball contract and was gone. He then started LSU's first black QB in Carl Otis Trimble, who might have been a good person, but wasn't worth a shite as a college QB. He could run, but could not pass. In order to pass, Billy Broussard had to come in which made us pretty predictable. A&M figured it out and jammed the middle and ends, and "dared" us to pass. Everyone else on the schedule figured it out and did the same thing. As to the two QB system, I do not remember when Mac didn't have a two QB system, other than the last year that Pat Lyons played.


This post was edited on 1/29 at 6:48 pm


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dukke v
UCLA Fan
PLUTO
Member since Jul 2006
122932 posts

re: For the old-timers...when did Cholly Mac first get on the hot seat?


quote:

After 3 running plays and no first down, the cheer was "Up the middle, up the middle, up the middle: Punt" usually followed by "Help Mac Pack."


But yet he coached [during that time] The best RB in LSU history.






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DaSaltyTiger
LSU Fan
Alexandria/Pineville, LA area
Member since Dec 2004
4689 posts

re: For the old-timers...when did Cholly Mac first get on the hot seat?


Mac's biggest problem was that he was a hell of a lot more loyal to his assistants than they were to him.





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DaSaltyTiger
LSU Fan
Alexandria/Pineville, LA area
Member since Dec 2004
4689 posts

re: For the old-timers...when did Cholly Mac first get on the hot seat?


quote:

We actually beat the Bear in '69 and '70 but not again until '82.


We won the 1970 game with Buddy Lee at QB, not Jones. Paul Lyons moved over to offense from defense because Mac wanted someone who could run the option, and would listen to his coaching. After Buddy Lee went down in the second half against Nebraska in the Orange Bowl, Jones played in his place. On what would wind up being our final play on 4th down, Mac sent in a play that Jones disregarded and checked to his own play. We failed to get a first down and lost the game. A lot of finger pointing started, but ultimately, it was a long time before Mac and Jones were one speaking terms again. Paul Lyons started the following year until the Notre Dame game in BR, at which point Mac named Jones the starter. Mac and Jones were not very close for the longest after the Nebraska game, to the point the Jones proclaimed that the highlight of his career at LSU was leaving. Mac responded by saying that Jones was not very coachable.






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