"The founding fathers didn't know about x, y, or z. Things have changed since.. | Page 7 | TigerDroppings.com

Posted byMessage
SlowFlowPro
Stanford Fan
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
300864 posts

re: "The founding fathers didn't know about x, y, or z. Things have changed since..


i pasted them onto this page

quote:

i have 2 simple questions:

1. what are the limits of the federal government?

2. assuming your argument is true, how can we respect ANY part of the constitution (namely the first amendment)?


*ETA: when i said "this" page above, i thought it would be on page 6 again. but i certainly just posted them on THIS page



This post was edited on 1/27 at 1:29 pm


Back to top
NC_Tigah
LSU Fan
Member since Sep 2003
54267 posts

re: "The founding fathers didn't know about x, y, or z. Things have changed since..


quote:

that as late as the time DIRECTLY before the new deal, the population/government believed such an expansive federal policy required an amendment. after the new deal, that policy was as simple as a congressional law
Interesting perspective.






Back to top
  Replies (0)
SoulGlo
LSU Fan
Shinin' Through
Member since Dec 2011
3652 posts

re: "The founding fathers didn't know about x, y, or z. Things have changed since..


quote:

this is why we vote and hold elections. the power ultimately rests in the collective people



This is why democracies end up in socialism, communism, and brutality.






Back to top
Vegas Bengal
Member since Feb 2008
26283 posts

re: "The founding fathers didn't know about x, y, or z. Things have changed since..


quote:

This is why democracies end up in socialism, communism, and brutality


What democracy has ever ended up like that?






Back to top
SoulGlo
LSU Fan
Shinin' Through
Member since Dec 2011
3652 posts

re: "The founding fathers didn't know about x, y, or z. Things have changed since..


quote:

Of course, we'll never know, but I would bet the farm that the framers would take positions on modern constitutional issues that would make some of our constitutional conservatives on this site shite their pants. It is fricking absurd to assume that they thought it would be necessary to adopt dozens and dozens of amendments to address each and every specific issue arising from the nonsense on the part of rabid, strict constructionists. The argument from some of you, who clearly have some intelligence, is mind blowing.


“The powers delegated by the proposed Constitution to the federal government are few and defined. Those which are to remain in the State governments are numerous and indefinite. The former will be exercised principally on external objects, as war, peace, negotiation and foreign commerce. ... The powers reserved to the several States will extend to all the objects which in the ordinary course of affairs, concern the lives and liberties, and properties of the people, and the internal order, improvement and prosperity of the State.”
? James Madison

The federal government isn't supposed to have a law for everything. That's what state governments are for. It also gives people ultimate freedom. If your state passes laws that you don't agree with, you can go to a state that does. It is your ignorance or denial of this that is mind blowing.






Back to top
  Replies (0)
SoulGlo
LSU Fan
Shinin' Through
Member since Dec 2011
3652 posts

re: "The founding fathers didn't know about x, y, or z. Things have changed since..


quote:

quote:
This is why democracies end up in socialism, communism, and brutality


What democracy has ever ended up like that?



Look no further than Venezuela as a current model. Everything's wonderful there, right?






Back to top
dr smartass phd
LSU Fan
Valerie Jarrett's School Picture
Member since Sep 2004
11596 posts

re: "The founding fathers didn't know about x, y, or z. Things have changed since..


The Constitution is the federal governments owners manual on what it can and cannot do, why try to over complicate the explanation of it. If something is ambiguous, go to the schematic called the Federalist and Anti-Federalist papers.





Back to top
SoulGlo
LSU Fan
Shinin' Through
Member since Dec 2011
3652 posts

re: "The founding fathers didn't know about x, y, or z. Things have changed since..


quote:

The Constitution is the federal governments owners manual on what it can and cannot do, why try to over complicate the explanation of it. If something is ambiguous, go to the schematic called the Federalist and Anti-Federalist papers.


That's too much work for people who think that "we can't know what they meant."






Back to top
Vegas Bengal
Member since Feb 2008
26283 posts

re: "The founding fathers didn't know about x, y, or z. Things have changed since..


quote:

Look no further than Venezuela as a current model. Everything's wonderful there, right?


So you're an "elitist"?

So what do you advocate? Monarchy? Dictatorship? Or a limited Democratic Republic where the people with whom you disagree are not allowed to vote? And wouldn't any of those alternatives lead to what you fear? Even a greater chance?






Back to top
dr smartass phd
LSU Fan
Valerie Jarrett's School Picture
Member since Sep 2004
11596 posts

re: "The founding fathers didn't know about x, y, or z. Things have changed since..


quote:

That's too much work for people who think that "we can't know what they meant."


It kills me, that someone tries to explain it in a convoluted thirty page thesis, when it can be summed up in two sentences.







Back to top
Vegas Bengal
Member since Feb 2008
26283 posts

re: "The founding fathers didn't know about x, y, or z. Things have changed since..


If the federal government was always as limited as you guys want it, we wouldn't be as advanced as we are. Where in he Constitution does Congress have the power to build an interstate system, or form NASA, or the CDC or a whole host of other advancements.





Back to top
SlowFlowPro
Stanford Fan
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
300864 posts

re: "The founding fathers didn't know about x, y, or z. Things have changed since..


quote:

If the federal government was always as limited as you guys want it, we wouldn't be as advanced as we are.

that's bullshite

the biggest increase in standard of living occurred before the new deal (during the industrial revolution)

advances are due to society, not government. government creates inefficiencies in the market and inhibits advancement

quote:

Where in he Constitution does Congress have the power to build an interstate system, or form NASA, or the CDC or a whole host of other advancements.

why do you presume that any possible advancement couldn't be produced by the private market or states?

this is a rigged argument, also. the WORLD has advanced at an exponential rate in the post-industrial world. government has increased at the same time. it has commandeered our economy by force and taken money out of the private economy and spread it around so much that it's hard to find an advancement that had no association to public monies. therefore it's rigged

that does NOT mean that advancements were made due to government

and the interstate system is a national defense program disguised as domestic policy






Back to top
Vegas Bengal
Member since Feb 2008
26283 posts

re: "The founding fathers didn't know about x, y, or z. Things have changed since..


quote:

why do you presume that any possible advancement couldn't be produced by the private market or states?


1. Too much money.
2. Too much differences in the states.






Back to top
SoulGlo
LSU Fan
Shinin' Through
Member since Dec 2011
3652 posts

re: "The founding fathers didn't know about x, y, or z. Things have changed since..


quote:

quote:
Look no further than Venezuela as a current model. Everything's wonderful there, right?


So you're an "elitist"?

So what do you advocate? Monarchy? Dictatorship? Or a limited Democratic Republic where the people with whom you disagree are not allowed to vote? And wouldn't any of those alternatives lead to what you fear? Even a greater chance?



0/4 there, pal. Nice try.






Back to top
  Replies (0)
HempHead
Alabama Fan
Appalachia
Member since Mar 2011
16841 posts

re: "The founding fathers didn't know about x, y, or z. Things have changed since..




Back to top
  Replies (0)
SlowFlowPro
Stanford Fan
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
300864 posts

re: "The founding fathers didn't know about x, y, or z. Things have changed since..


quote:

1. Too much money.

where does the federal government get its money? magic?

quote:

2. Too much differences in the states.

since when has competition hurt advancement?






Back to top
dr smartass phd
LSU Fan
Valerie Jarrett's School Picture
Member since Sep 2004
11596 posts

re: "The founding fathers didn't know about x, y, or z. Things have changed since..


quote:

2. Too much differences in the states.


since when has competition hurt advancement?


I don't think she gets the Laboratories of Democracy thing.






Back to top
  Replies (0)
SlowFlowPro
Stanford Fan
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
300864 posts

re: "The founding fathers didn't know about x, y, or z. Things have changed since..


quote:

I think you know.

the same place states get it: us

quote:

and if you want to argue private business would have gone to the moon and sent up a pace shuttle as early as we did

going to the moon is pointless. the technology we gained form it is useful. i do believe that private industry could have achieved the same technological adavncement

quote:

if you want to argue that states and private business would have done as good a job as the Feds in terms of grants in medicine for vaccines etc

i certainly believe this

vaccines are valuable to combat disease. why would they fail to have a place in the market?

why don't you answer the 2 questions i asked, most recently posted on page 7?






Back to top
  Replies (0)
Antonio Moss
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Mar 2006
29049 posts

re: "The founding fathers didn't know about x, y, or z. Things have changed since..


quote:

Democratic Republic


This isn't a real thing. Pet peeve of mine. You're either a Republic or a Democracy. You can't be both.






Back to top
SlowFlowPro
Stanford Fan
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
300864 posts

re: "The founding fathers didn't know about x, y, or z. Things have changed since..


nobody wants to answer my questions





Back to top


Back to top