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SoulGlo 
LSU Fan
Shinin' Through
Member since Dec 2011
1983 posts
| re: "The founding fathers didn't know about x, y, or z. Things have changed since.. (Posted on 1/26/13 at 11:48 am to MrCarton)
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Standard issue isn't a SAW, RPG, or anything else of such nature.
Yes it is. Light anti tank weapons and automatic machine guns are the focal point of light infantry maneuver elements. But the operative word in the 2nd is militia, for which such weapons have literally countered the best that the US MILITARY has had to offer in the last 40 years.
Dude, I know each squad has light artillery, light anti-armor, and fully automatic weaponry. Not everybody carries all that shit, though. That's why I said "basic, standard issue."
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SoulGlo
LSU Fan
Shinin' Through
Member since Dec 2011
1983 posts
| re: "The founding fathers didn't know about x, y, or z. Things have changed since.. (Posted on 1/26/13 at 11:50 am to SlowFlowPro)
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while conservatives believe that limiting your rights is detremental in every way.
especially when it involves limiting your rights to marry another consenting adult or ingest products in your body
Conservatives don't want this. Republicans do. However, the meaning of the word "conservative" has changed recently, so you may be right. 
Smaller government should be consistently smaller.
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SlowFlowPro 
Stanford Fan
Equality is a circle, not a =
Member since Jan 2004
263298 posts
| re: "The founding fathers didn't know about x, y, or z. Things have changed since.. (Posted on 1/26/13 at 11:52 am to SoulGlo)
you can pick and choose any part of the constitution or its amendments and declare it unsuitable for today's society
our founders had no idea that one day we've have the means to connect to millions of people within a matter of minutes. the threat of the spread of disinformation, lies, or propaganda certainly warrants a retraction of freedom of speech/press
or another good one that has actually happened via courts over time
our founders had no idea that illegal activity would be conducted with the ability to flee so quickly with automobile transportation. the 4th amendment is far too cumbersome to protect citizens from criminals and should be restrained or eliminated
and those are just rights. the powers of the government can be even more easily skewed to fit any agenda
another good one that is happening in real time involves war powers in the face of a non-state opponent who may be positioned domestically within the united states. we've seen a massive expansion of governmental power for this reason, under DEM/GOP congresses and administrations
but you know, since our founders couldn't imagine such a threat, it's OK!
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MrCarton 
Alabama Fan
Nashville
Member since Dec 2009
1643 posts
| re: "The founding fathers didn't know about x, y, or z. Things have changed since.. (Posted on 1/26/13 at 11:52 am to SoulGlo)
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Dude, I know each squad has light artillery, light anti-armor, and fully automatic weaponry.
Just admit your ignorance. You don't know what your talking about.
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TrueTiger
LSU Fan
Republic of West Florida
Member since Sep 2004
2472 posts
| re: "The founding fathers didn't know about x, y, or z. Things have changed since.. (Posted on 1/26/13 at 12:24 pm to SoulGlo)
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Progressives have had to disguise, repackage, and flat out lie about what they want. Hell, "Progressive" itself is a repackage to sell "new" ideas that are over 100 years old
Even older, this stuff is disguised Marxism which is a warmed over form of feudalism. Very, very old stuff, centuries old.
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SoulGlo
LSU Fan
Shinin' Through
Member since Dec 2011
1983 posts
| re: "The founding fathers didn't know about x, y, or z. Things have changed since.. (Posted on 1/26/13 at 12:53 pm to SlowFlowPro)
quote:
you can pick and choose any part of the constitution or its amendments and declare it unsuitable for today's society
our founders had no idea that one day we've have the means to connect to millions of people within a matter of minutes. the threat of the spread of disinformation, lies, or propaganda certainly warrants a retraction of freedom of speech/press
or another good one that has actually happened via courts over time
our founders had no idea that illegal activity would be conducted with the ability to flee so quickly with automobile transportation. the 4th amendment is far too cumbersome to protect citizens from criminals and should be restrained or eliminated
and those are just rights. the powers of the government can be even more easily skewed to fit any agenda
another good one that is happening in real time involves war powers in the face of a non-state opponent who may be positioned domestically within the united states. we've seen a massive expansion of governmental power for this reason, under DEM/GOP congresses and administrations
but you know, since our founders couldn't imagine such a threat, it's OK!
TV, radio, porn, newspapers, internet, none were around when the Constitution was framed. They are a threat.
I love converted libs.
Those who have questioned their entire belief system and come through it are much more knowledgeable than those who haven't. 
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SoulGlo
LSU Fan
Shinin' Through
Member since Dec 2011
1983 posts
| re: "The founding fathers didn't know about x, y, or z. Things have changed since.. (Posted on 1/26/13 at 12:54 pm to MrCarton)
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Dude, I know each squad has light artillery, light anti-armor, and fully automatic weaponry.
Just admit your ignorance. You don't know what your talking about.
Tell me what I have said that is incorrect. You don't know my background, or what I know. Give specifics or STFU.
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germandawg
Member since Sep 2012
343 posts
| re: "The founding fathers didn't know about x, y, or z. Things have changed since.. (Posted on 1/26/13 at 1:07 pm to Mike da Tigah)
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The argument of a very shallow and ignorant person. Principles don't change, and neither does man's nature or lust for power and control.
If anything has changed, it's our lack of principles, and for such a supposed enlightened and intelligent people with the answers to life's mysteries only a mouse click away, we sure are some dumb and misled fools.
Our principles have changed, and for the better. The founding fathers of this nation didn't give a flip about freedom, they merely paid lip service to it. If they had truly been interested in freedom slavery would have never been legal in this nation.
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MrCarton
Alabama Fan
Nashville
Member since Dec 2009
1643 posts
| re: "The founding fathers didn't know about x, y, or z. Things have changed since.. (Posted on 1/26/13 at 1:09 pm to SoulGlo)
I didn't claim to know anything about you. What you said is incorrect, a simple Google search would reveal that.
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LSUgusto
LSU Fan
Member since May 2005
15545 posts
| re: "The founding fathers didn't know about x, y, or z. Things have changed since.. (Posted on 1/26/13 at 1:54 pm to germandawg)
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The founding fathers of this nation didn't give a flip about freedom, they merely paid lip service to it. If they had truly been interested in freedom slavery would have never been legal in this nation.
Cue the Jaguars fan gif...
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SlowFlowPro
Stanford Fan
Equality is a circle, not a =
Member since Jan 2004
263298 posts
| re: "The founding fathers didn't know about x, y, or z. Things have changed since.. (Posted on 1/26/13 at 1:57 pm to germandawg)
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Our principles have changed, and for the better. The founding fathers of this nation didn't give a flip about freedom, they merely paid lip service to it. If they had truly been interested in freedom slavery would have never been legal in this nation.
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Antonio Moss
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Mar 2006
25284 posts
| re: "The founding fathers didn't know about x, y, or z. Things have changed since.. (Posted on 1/26/13 at 2:29 pm to CC)
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The purpose of the constitution is to limit the power others can exercise over an individual.
Not quite right. It limits the power the government can exercise over the individual, not other persons.
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Antonio Moss
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Mar 2006
25284 posts
| re: "The founding fathers didn't know about x, y, or z. Things have changed since.. (Posted on 1/26/13 at 2:31 pm to germandawg)
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Our principles have changed, and for the better. The founding fathers of this nation didn't give a flip about freedom, they merely paid lip service to it. If they had truly been interested in freedom slavery would have never been legal in this nation.
Ignorant post.
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Bestbank Tiger 
Tulane Fan
Landmass Gulf Coast
Member since Jan 2005
15691 posts
| re: "The founding fathers didn't know about x, y, or z. Things have changed since.. (Posted on 1/26/13 at 2:38 pm to Antonio Moss)
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Ignorant post.
This.
They absolutely could have and should have done more for freedom, but they made some major strides in the right direction. That includes putting an end to hereditary rule, making those in power accountable to some of the population, and codifying restrictions on government power.
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SoulGlo
LSU Fan
Shinin' Through
Member since Dec 2011
1983 posts
| re: "The founding fathers didn't know about x, y, or z. Things have changed since.. (Posted on 1/26/13 at 4:47 pm to germandawg)
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If they had truly been interested in freedom slavery would have never been legal in this nation.
Did they not have a HUGE rift between the states because of it?
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SoulGlo
LSU Fan
Shinin' Through
Member since Dec 2011
1983 posts
| re: "The founding fathers didn't know about x, y, or z. Things have changed since.. (Posted on 1/26/13 at 4:48 pm to MrCarton)
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What you said is incorrect,
still waiting.
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MrCarton
Alabama Fan
Nashville
Member since Dec 2009
1643 posts
| re: "The founding fathers didn't know about x, y, or z. Things have changed since.. (Posted on 1/26/13 at 5:28 pm to SoulGlo)
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Dude, I know each squad has light artillery, light anti-armor, and fully automatic weaponry. Not everybody carries all that shit, though. That's why I said "basic, standard issue."
There is no such thing as "standard, basic issue".
Every unit issues and receives men weapons and equipment according to an MTOE. Each unit has different "basic equipment".
Standard equipment essentially means a contracted and approved piece of equipment. A Bradley is standard equipment. A M2 .50 cal is standard. a Javelin rocket is standard. A battlefield recovered AK47 is not standard equipment and requires specific permission to use.
So "standard, Basic equipment" does not mean anything without qualifying language to accompany it.
No, each squad does not have light artillery. Light artillery is considered a 105 howitzer. Maneuver elements may have changed these days, but artillery would be pretty hard to hump around. Perhaps part of your background was pioneering the 105 man portable artillery piece for infantry use?
Each squad does not have anti armor weapons, even in an infantry MTOE. But if they did, I can assure you they would be both standard and basic equipment.
IMHO, attempting to limit the 2nd amendment based on the equipment common to military units is foolish. Militia is the limiting word of the article, for which standard and basic equipment is a non issue to begin with.
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davesdawgs 
Georgia Fan
Georgia
Member since Oct 2008
10964 posts
| re: "The founding fathers didn't know about x, y, or z. Things have changed since.. (Posted on 1/26/13 at 6:03 pm to Mike da Tigah)
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The argument of a very shallow and ignorant person. Principles don't change, and neither does man's nature or lust for power and control.
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SoulGlo
LSU Fan
Shinin' Through
Member since Dec 2011
1983 posts
| re: "The founding fathers didn't know about x, y, or z. Things have changed since.. (Posted on 1/26/13 at 6:04 pm to MrCarton)
Good Lord, man. Get a hold of yourself. You don't need to bust out a fricking dictionary yet. When I say "basic, standard issue," I'm talking about throwing the weapons that the VAST majority of soldiers use in-theater. Semi-automatic "assault rifle," 20-30 round mag, etc.
Getting a point across often means dumbing down language for the sake of relating to who you're talking to. I'm not going to bust out a field manual, MTOE, or anything else to have a discussion on the 2nd Amendment. Same thing as using the word "clip" instead of magazine. If that's the language your audience understands, then use it. The words "standard" and "basic" simply exclude the SAW, mortars, and other such specialty weapons. That's it.
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VOR 
New Orleans Saints Fan
New Orleans
Member since Apr 2009
32931 posts
| re: "The founding fathers didn't know about x, y, or z. Things have changed since.. (Posted on 1/26/13 at 6:30 pm to SoulGlo)
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If the framers knew virtually about anything today, why do we still have the constitution? Speech, religion, arms, search technologies, etc have ALL changed. Why is the Constitution rock solid on some things, yet its composers completely ignorant on others? Why mustn't we scrap it and start over, creating a new law regarding every advancement or change of society?
I'm not going past the OP. I'll just say the framers probably assumed that future generations would be insightful and bright enough to understand that the wording of the constitution should be applied in light of the the reality at the time. If not, they would be fricking political equivalent of luddites. I admire and respect them more than that. It is absolutely ludicrous to think that they would apply the values inherent in the constitution today without taking modern reality into account.
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