"The founding fathers didn't know about x, y, or z. Things have changed since.. | Page 4 | TigerDroppings.com

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SlowFlowPro
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re: "The founding fathers didn't know about x, y, or z. Things have changed since..


quote:

Do you believe you should be allowed to own a nuclear weapon?

since when were rights absolute without any possibility of regulation by the state?

what does that have to do with the bastardization of our USSC precedent regarding federal power since the new deal?






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SlowFlowPro
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re: "The founding fathers didn't know about x, y, or z. Things have changed since..


quote:

I will never understood why so many people blindly support the constitution.

it's one of the best governmental-organizational documents on earth

what are the specific flaws with the constitution?






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SlowFlowPro
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re: "The founding fathers didn't know about x, y, or z. Things have changed since..


quote:

I think many of our issues today stem from our two-party political system.

SMDs and decreasing the powers of the state created the static politics that we have today

why did you avoid my 2 questions earlier?






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mograyback
Missouri Fan
Member since Jul 2011
7102 posts

re: "The founding fathers didn't know about x, y, or z. Things have changed since..


quote:

I hear this argument on every discussion about the constitution and its application in today's society. I sometimes call liberal talk shows and discuss topics on the air. Without fail, when they can't refute the language of the Constitution or the meaning behind that language, they drop the call and start talking about how the founders didn't know about life today. They didn't know what weapons we would have. They didn't know about DNA or abortion. Basically, they couldn't see past their own generation into the future.

This is where "the constitution is a living document" mentality comes from. My question is this...

If the framers knew virtually about anything today, why do we still have the constitution? Speech, religion, arms, search technologies, etc have ALL changed. Why is the Constitution rock solid on some things, yet its composers completely ignorant on others? Why mustn't we scrap it and start over, creating a new law regarding every advancement or change of society?


You're utterly clueless.

Also, it's mind boggling how f'ing retarded you sound.










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SlowFlowPro
Stanford Fan
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Member since Jan 2004
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re: "The founding fathers didn't know about x, y, or z. Things have changed since..


quote:

You're utterly clueless.

what did he say that's incorrect?

the digression in progressives resulting in the dismissal of the document is pretty accurate






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ShortyRob
LSU Fan
Huntsville, AL
Member since Oct 2008
27489 posts

re: "The founding fathers didn't know about x, y, or z. Things have changed since..


The entire "they didn't know" argument is fundamentally stupid and demonstrates that the person utterring it is either a complete idiot or a lying piece of shite. This is true for one OBVIOUS reason.

The founders ACKNOWLEDEGED they couldn't know wha the future would bring and hence, installed a method for future Americans do deal with such things. AMENDMENTS!!

The people who use the "they didn't know" argument are REALLY saying, "we don't like that pain in the arse process. We just want to fricking ignore the thing".

If a constitution is a simple to change as any other law, then there is literally no point in having a constitution at all. Hence, the left, no matter how much they claim otherwise, is basically the anti-constitution party.







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TrueTiger
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re: "The founding fathers didn't know about x, y, or z. Things have changed since..


quote:

Do you believe you should be allowed to own a nuclear weapon?


If they are relatively common, relatively affordable by the average citizen and the bad guys are getting them,
then yes, I should be able to get one too.

I don't want advantages to the evil doers at my expense.






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SlowFlowPro
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re: "The founding fathers didn't know about x, y, or z. Things have changed since..


yeah i mean i understand what the basis in their argument is. they want change for the sake of change. it's in the nature of progressivism. you can't do that with a rigid governmental system

the picking and choosing of which part of the document that should be protected is the real funny part

i mean which have effects and which don't?







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Bestbank Tiger
Ohio State Fan
Landmass
Member since Jan 2005
20709 posts

re: "The founding fathers didn't know about x, y, or z. Things have changed since..


quote:

I think many of our issues today stem from our two-party political system. I would like to see that changed more than anything else


I kige this.

It would be great if political parties weren't allowed to have any formal role in elections. Under freedom of association, you would have to allow them to exist, but they should have no more meaning than local machines (like SOUL/BOLD/COUP/LIFE did in New Orleans) or the various Tea Party organizations. They can give endorsements and do bundling as there is no way to prevent that.

But you wouldn't have people trying to pander to the base in a primary, and you wouldn't have people like Reid, Pelousy, Boehnhead, and McConnell in important positions. You also wouldn't have anyone giving marching orders to rank and file members of Congress.






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BBONDS25
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Member since Mar 2008
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re: "The founding fathers didn't know about x, y, or z. Things have changed since..


Don't question mogray. He is a constitutional scholar. Just ask him.





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SoulGlo
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re: "The founding fathers didn't know about x, y, or z. Things have changed since..


quote:

Do you believe you should be allowed to own a nuclear weapon? If not then you believe in limits on the 2nd amendment


Is "well regulated" not your favorite two words in the entire document?

People should be able to have the basic weaponry of standard infantry. AR15/m4, 20-30 round magazine, etc. Standard issue isn't a SAW, RPG, or anything else of such nature. This includes nuclear fricking weapons.






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SoulGlo
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re: "The founding fathers didn't know about x, y, or z. Things have changed since..


Why do the President, Congress, et al swear to uphold the Constitution against ALL enemies? If it's a piece of bird cage liner as you say, why even pay it any attention?





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SoulGlo
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re: "The founding fathers didn't know about x, y, or z. Things have changed since..


quote:

No one knows their intent. Also, 2/3rds of both houses is a near impossibility. Especially today. I seriously doubt they truly intended to make the process that difficult.



Yes, we do. They made it that difficult to change so that politicians couldn't ram oppression down the throats of the people and strip them of their rights. It's not difficult to figure out, man. "Nobody knows?" They left plenty of letters, debates, quotes, etc behind so everybody knew what their intent was. Only the willfully ignorant can't figure out original intent.






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MrCarton
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Paradise Valley, MT
Member since Dec 2009
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re: "The founding fathers didn't know about x, y, or z. Things have changed since..


quote:

Standard issue isn't a SAW, RPG, or anything else of such nature.


Yes it is. Light anti tank weapons and automatic machine guns are the focal point of light infantry maneuver elements. But the operative word in the 2nd is militia, for which such weapons have literally countered the best that the US MILITARY has had to offer in the last 40 years.






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SoulGlo
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re: "The founding fathers didn't know about x, y, or z. Things have changed since..


quote:


I don't pretend to have the answers. I'm also not here to completely bash the constitution. It is without a doubt one of the world's greatest documents.

I think many of our issues today stem from our two-party political system. I would like to see that changed more than anything else



Well then, we have a starting point, and you are absolutely correct in this. The amendment process was made to be difficult in case we ended up with a system like we have now. Of course, if the parties are too fricking lazy to amend the Constitution, they'll figure out ways around it until the people have had enough. We'll see if that even happens(people stopping the politicians).






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SoulGlo
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Member since Dec 2011
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re: "The founding fathers didn't know about x, y, or z. Things have changed since..


quote:

You're utterly clueless.

Also, it's mind boggling how f'ing retarded you sound.




Care to enlighten me then? I can call you clueless and fricking retarded, but it doesn't mean anything without specifics. Let's go, intellectual giant. Show me how fricking retarded I am.






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wolfgang
Southern Cal Fan
Baton Rouge and Los Angeles
Member since Jan 2007
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re: "The founding fathers didn't know about x, y, or z. Things have changed since..


The Founders probably knew more about today, than most of the people today do. The rules in that document are ageless and apply to now as well as the future. It is living in the sense it provides a means of adding Amendments, and that is the end of its flexability. Democrats believe that limiting your rights is protecting you, while conservatives believe that limiting your rights is detremental in every way.





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SlowFlowPro
Stanford Fan
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Member since Jan 2004
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re: "The founding fathers didn't know about x, y, or z. Things have changed since..


quote:

while conservatives believe that limiting your rights is detremental in every way.

especially when it involves limiting your rights to marry another consenting adult or ingest products in your body






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SoulGlo
LSU Fan
Shinin' Through
Member since Dec 2011
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re: "The founding fathers didn't know about x, y, or z. Things have changed since..


quote:

yeah i mean i understand what the basis in their argument is. they want change for the sake of change. it's in the nature of progressivism. you can't do that with a rigid governmental system

the picking and choosing of which part of the document that should be protected is the real funny part

i mean which have effects and which don't?


It falls back to how they do business. Saul Alinsky is famous for a reason. Progressives have had to disguise, repackage, and flat out lie about what they want. Hell, "Progressive" itself is a repackage to sell "new" ideas that are over 100 years old, and that have been tried and failed the entire time.

The "Progressive" agenda wouldn't come close to getting a real Constitutional amendment on any of their really key issues. That's why they try to dodge it, undermine it, and use the courts to twist the words.







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wolfgang
Southern Cal Fan
Baton Rouge and Los Angeles
Member since Jan 2007
1895 posts

re: "The founding fathers didn't know about x, y, or z. Things have changed since..


Interesting response slow flo, however gay marriage is not an intregal part of the Bill of Rights. There are cultural matters that cannot be ignored, but in my position, I really don't give a damn if they marry or not. Having been married three times, if the homos want that kind of misery, more power to them.





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