"The founding fathers didn't know about x, y, or z. Things have changed since.. - Page 3 - TigerDroppings.com

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Draconian Sanctions
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re: "The founding fathers didn't know about x, y, or z. Things have changed since..


quote:


it is a real thing


Only on talk radio






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MrCarton
UNO Fan
Paradise Valley, MT
Member since Dec 2009
2224 posts

re: "The founding fathers didn't know about x, y, or z. Things have changed since..


quote:


Neither. I just hate these people who come on here talking about strict constructionism like it's still a real thing.


It is as real as any idea, or you wouldn't be venting about it. You may not see it as realistic or possible in puritanical form but that doesn't mean it can't be used as means by which to measure our distance from baseline.








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Draconian Sanctions
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re: "The founding fathers didn't know about x, y, or z. Things have changed since..


quote:



If by "founders", you mean signers of the Declaration, you are incorrect. It was less than 50% lawyers


Depends on how deep you want to go on founders.

Madison, Jefferson, Adams and Monroe.....4 of the first 5 Presidents, were lawyers. GW and Franklin, the other two big dogs, weren't.






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SlowFlowPro
Stanford Fan
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
292017 posts

re: "The founding fathers didn't know about x, y, or z. Things have changed since..


quote:

Only on talk radio







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SammyTiger
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge, LA
Member since Feb 2009
9278 posts

re: "The founding fathers didn't know about x, y, or z. Things have changed since..


Because it is equally ignorant to say the founders were wrong about every as it is to say they were right about everything.

Let be real, the constitution isn't perfect. But that ok. Because we can amend what is imperfect about it (i.e. slavery)

Also lets not act like out founding fathers all wanted the constitution. Anti-federalist? heard of them?






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RogerTheShrubber
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Juneau, AK
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re: "The founding fathers didn't know about x, y, or z. Things have changed since..


Interesting, those who have some disdain for the constitution or "traditional meaning" usually favor increasing the power of the federal govt over states, or individuals. We need definite protections vs federal powers. It's a good thing, not a bad thing.





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SoulGlo
LSU Fan
Shinin' Through
Member since Dec 2011
3455 posts

re: "The founding fathers didn't know about x, y, or z. Things have changed since..


quote:

Strict Constructionism is a political tool, nothing more. As a legal theory it died before anyone that posts here was born. Accept it and move on.


So you're in the "scrap the constitution" camp. I figured that. So, why do you even reference it in regards to our so-called rights? Do you not vigorously defend the 4th? The 1st? Is it intellectually honest to pick and choose?






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Poodlebrain
LSU Fan
Way Right of Rex
Member since Jan 2004
14925 posts

re: "The founding fathers didn't know about x, y, or z. Things have changed since..


quote:

All of this discussion is rendered moot by the amendment process.
The founders appreciated how difficult amending the constitution is since they established the rules for doing so. Their intent was that the constitution would not be amended for trivial reasons, or in hasty reaction to to current passions (I don't think they would have appreciated how 13, 14 and 15 were ratified), but that when important changes were required and a broad consensus achieved we would do the right thing. Unfortunately, the founders could not anticipate the impatience of future generations. They did not anticipate the use of judicial interpretation to change the meaning of the constitution without the consent of the state governments.






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Draconian Sanctions
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re: "The founding fathers didn't know about x, y, or z. Things have changed since..


quote:


So you're in the "scrap the constitution" camp


It's really ignorant to believe that anyone who isn't a strict constructionist wants to scrap the constitution.

Do you believe you should be allowed to own a nuclear weapon? If not then you believe in limits on the 2nd amendment. I guess in that case you want to scrap the Constitution.






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Draconian Sanctions
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re: "The founding fathers didn't know about x, y, or z. Things have changed since..


quote:



It is as real as any idea, or you wouldn't be venting about it.


it's real in the poli board's fantasy land. Not in the real world.






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Bestbank Tiger
Tulane Fan
Landmass
Member since Jan 2005
19170 posts

re: "The founding fathers didn't know about x, y, or z. Things have changed since..


quote:

It's really ignorant to believe that anyone who isn't a strict constructionist wants to scrap the constitution. Do you believe you should be allowed to own a nuclear weapon? If not then you believe in limits on the 2nd amendment. I guess in that case you want to scrap the Constitution.


Strawman argument.

The issue is not with restricting individual rights where the government has a compelling interest. The issue is the people who openly dismiss the Constitution as an outdated document.

We just had a thread a few days ago where the OP said the Republicans needed to stop treating a 250 year old document like gospel.

The other problem is that if it's OK to ignore the Constitution because "things have changed" or "the Founders didn't know what modern society would be like", then we have no protections at all. Do you oppose freedom of speech and freedom of the press based on the fact that they were put in the Constitution over 200 years ago by a bunch of primitive, ignorant white guys? Do you oppose the due process protections based on their antiquity? Do you believe Roe and Griswold should be overturned because the legal reasoning for them was drawn from an 18th century Constitutional amendment?






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TheOcean
Florida State Fan
Member since Aug 2004
30543 posts

re: "The founding fathers didn't know about x, y, or z. Things have changed since..


quote:

Their intent was that the constitution would not be amended for trivial reasons




No one knows their intent. Also, 2/3rds of both houses is a near impossibility. Especially today. I seriously doubt they truly intended to make the process that difficult.

The constitution is FAR from a perfect document and the amendment process, IMO, is possibly its biggest flaw.






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TheOcean
Florida State Fan
Member since Aug 2004
30543 posts

re: "The founding fathers didn't know about x, y, or z. Things have changed since..


quote:

Constitution as an outdated document.


You have a document that was created in complete secrecy and born out of the failure that was the AOC. The constitution was basically a gigantic crap shoot.

Now we're left with a 200+ year old document with numerous ambiguities and a flawed amendment process (thank you politics). And, the ambiguities are essentially abused by the SCOTUS to fit their own power hungry agenda.

I will never understood why so many people blindly support the constitution.



This post was edited on 1/26 at 9:07 am


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BBONDS25
LSU Fan
Member since Mar 2008
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re: "The founding fathers didn't know about x, y, or z. Things have changed since..


John devlin would be proud of you.





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Bestbank Tiger
Tulane Fan
Landmass
Member since Jan 2005
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re: "The founding fathers didn't know about x, y, or z. Things have changed since..


quote:

Now we're left with a 200+ year old document with numerous ambiguities and a flawed amendment process (thank you politics). And, the ambiguities are essentially abused by the SCOTUS to fit their own power hungry agenda. I will never understood why so many people blindly support the constitution.


Would you prefer throwing it out and letting the government run roughshod over us?

Things are bad enough as it is--the Kelo decision, forfeiture laws, Obamacare. Imagine if there were no restraints at all. The American people would lose all of the time instead of just some of the time.






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MrCarton
UNO Fan
Paradise Valley, MT
Member since Dec 2009
2224 posts

re: "The founding fathers didn't know about x, y, or z. Things have changed since..


quote:


Do you believe you should be allowed to own a nuclear weapon? If not then you believe in limits on the 2nd amendment. I guess in that case you want to scrap the Constitution.



Militia, keep, bear, arms. Look Those words up and tell me we are talking about nukes here.



This post was edited on 1/26 at 9:40 am


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real
LSU Fan
Dixieland
Member since Oct 2007
12618 posts

re: "The founding fathers didn't know about x, y, or z. Things have changed since..


One thing I wish they woulda foreseen is what having slaves would one day cost America.





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weagle99
Member since Nov 2011
10720 posts

re: "The founding fathers didn't know about x, y, or z. Things have changed since..


quote:

No one knows their intent.


quote:

I seriously doubt they truly intended to make the process that difficult.








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TheOcean
Florida State Fan
Member since Aug 2004
30543 posts

re: "The founding fathers didn't know about x, y, or z. Things have changed since..


Hmmm, reading comprehension?

Saying what they intended and what you THINK they intended are two completely different things.






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TheOcean
Florida State Fan
Member since Aug 2004
30543 posts

re: "The founding fathers didn't know about x, y, or z. Things have changed since..


quote:

Would you prefer throwing it out and letting the government run roughshod over us?


I don't pretend to have the answers. I'm also not here to completely bash the constitution. It is without a doubt one of the world's greatest documents.

I think many of our issues today stem from our two-party political system. I would like to see that changed more than anything else






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