"The founding fathers didn't know about x, y, or z. Things have changed since.. - Page 2 - TigerDroppings.com

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TheOcean
Florida State Fan
Member since Aug 2004
30543 posts

re: "The founding fathers didn't know about x, y, or z. Things have changed since..


quote:

they saw results and molded the law to get the results


Hasn't the S.C. been doing this since Marbury?






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Draconian Sanctions
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
2011 SECr Hall of Flame Inductee
Member since Oct 2008
39851 posts

re: "The founding fathers didn't know about x, y, or z. Things have changed since..


quote:

just because our supreme court was hijacked by radicals during the new deal (under threats from a shitty president) doesn't mean that it was a good step or that we just have to accept the shitty law they promoted

the knockout blow was the court under the civil rights era, who made the federal government a monolith to purposefully avoid the actual written words of the constitution. they saw results and molded the law to get the results


I was wondering when you'd show up


I'm not debating the wisdom of it. Just pointing out that even the justices that are hailed on here don't subscribe to strict constructionism or even really seem like it all that much and it holds no relevance at all in modern jurisprudence.






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SlowFlowPro
Stanford Fan
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
292034 posts

re: "The founding fathers didn't know about x, y, or z. Things have changed since..


quote:

Hasn't the S.C. been doing this since Marbury?

to an extent, but nothing as radical as the expansion of our federal government into a monolithic leviathon

the entire basis of the constitution is to prevent the power of federal government from expanding






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Draconian Sanctions
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
2011 SECr Hall of Flame Inductee
Member since Oct 2008
39851 posts

re: "The founding fathers didn't know about x, y, or z. Things have changed since..


quote:


the entire basis of the constitution is to prevent the power of federal government from expanding


They themselves started the process though when they scrapped the AOC and wrote the Constitution.






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SlowFlowPro
Stanford Fan
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Member since Jan 2004
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re: "The founding fathers didn't know about x, y, or z. Things have changed since..


quote:

Just pointing out that even the justices that are hailed on here don't subscribe to strict constructionism

mainly because of their adherence to the common law and precedence

that's the hook back to discussing the wisdom of horrible case law like we saw during the new deal and civil rights era

when you rig the system with shit, it's tough to fix it






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SlowFlowPro
Stanford Fan
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Member since Jan 2004
292034 posts

re: "The founding fathers didn't know about x, y, or z. Things have changed since..


quote:

They themselves started the process though when they scrapped the AOC and wrote the Constitution.

and in doing so they were VERY careful to limit the powers of the federal government

they believed in freedom. frick the bill of rights are 10 amendments b/c they thought it was common sense that these things would not be infringed. i have no clue why progressives work so hard to destroy freedom and subject us all to the wisdom of a leviathon






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TheOcean
Florida State Fan
Member since Aug 2004
30543 posts

re: "The founding fathers didn't know about x, y, or z. Things have changed since..


quote:

They themselves started the process though when they scrapped the AOC and wrote the Constitution.


Agreed. The AOC was a gigantic clusterfrick.







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MrCarton
UNO Fan
Paradise Valley, MT
Member since Dec 2009
2224 posts

re: "The founding fathers didn't know about x, y, or z. Things have changed since..


quote:


Most of the founders were lawyers smart guy


Neato!






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SlowFlowPro
Stanford Fan
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
292034 posts

re: "The founding fathers didn't know about x, y, or z. Things have changed since..


quote:

Agreed. The AOC was a gigantic clusterfrick.

yeah, and they increased the power of the federal government to coordinate the states and due to this, they installed mechanisms to avoid the system we have today. are you arguing with that point?






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Draconian Sanctions
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
2011 SECr Hall of Flame Inductee
Member since Oct 2008
39851 posts

re: "The founding fathers didn't know about x, y, or z. Things have changed since..


quote:


mainly because of their adherence to the common law and precedence

that's the hook back to discussing the wisdom of horrible case law like we saw during the new deal and civil rights era

when you rig the system with shit, it's tough to fix it


USSC can scrap any of that any time they want....What does it say that they not only haven't done so but haven't even really tried and in fact speak out against the concept?






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ApexTiger
LSU Fan
cary nc
Member since Oct 2003
30315 posts

re: "The founding fathers didn't know about x, y, or z. Things have changed since..


The founding fathers didn't know about an Income tax

A Federal Bank not owned by the Government

Or 16 Trillion debt

What do you suppose they would do or say about these issues?

I think they would pass an amendment that states we have to live within our means, no raising of the debt ceiling

I think they would say, "figure it out or resign from your post"






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SlowFlowPro
Stanford Fan
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Member since Jan 2004
292034 posts

re: "The founding fathers didn't know about x, y, or z. Things have changed since..


quote:

What does it say that they not only haven't done so but haven't even really tried and in fact speak out against the concept?

it means they have respect for common law and don't want to create a radical decision decades after our society adjusted to a radical decision. take the obamacare case: imagine had scalia/thomas/alito/kennedy said "frick it, we're returning the ICC to it's original interpretation"

would our federal government just stop? the vast majority of what is our federal government would be illegal overnight






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Draconian Sanctions
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
2011 SECr Hall of Flame Inductee
Member since Oct 2008
39851 posts

re: "The founding fathers didn't know about x, y, or z. Things have changed since..


quote:


it means they have respect for common law and don't want to create a radical decision decades after our society adjusted to a radical decision. take the obamacare case: imagine had scalia/thomas/alito/kennedy said "frick it, we're returning the ICC to it's original interpretation"

would our federal government just stop? the vast majority of what is our federal government would be illegal overnight


I don't mean that drastic but if they were truly committed to the cause they would do what the could to chip away at it then pass it off to the next generation. This is not happening either.






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SlowFlowPro
Stanford Fan
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Member since Jan 2004
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re: "The founding fathers didn't know about x, y, or z. Things have changed since..


quote:

I don't mean that drastic

of course not. when offering your suggestions on how they SHOULD rule, you never think of what an actual, realistic result would be.

quote:

but if they were truly committed to the cause they would do what the could to chip away

you can't chip away at shite caselaw like this. you have to end it or keep going

so tell me what you want to happen: a radical/sudden break or respect for precedent






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TheOcean
Florida State Fan
Member since Aug 2004
30543 posts

re: "The founding fathers didn't know about x, y, or z. Things have changed since..


quote:

they installed mechanisms to avoid the system we have today. are you arguing with that point?


I'm going to take the "moronic" approach to the constitution and say that our federal government today can't be paralleled to the framer's concept of government.

Not to mention those mechanisms are essentially a gigantic bargain between the southern and northern states. God only knows what the framers truly intended.






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SlowFlowPro
Stanford Fan
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
292034 posts

re: "The founding fathers didn't know about x, y, or z. Things have changed since..


quote:

and say that our federal government today can't be paralleled to the framer's concept of government.

and we get back to the OP

that argument makes no sense and has no morality, grounding, or rigidity

quote:

God only knows what the framers truly intended.

well it's not like we are lacking in caselaw around the time and it's not like the USSC at the time wasn't filled by founders (whatever the frick that means).






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SlowFlowPro
Stanford Fan
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
292034 posts

re: "The founding fathers didn't know about x, y, or z. Things have changed since..


i have 2 simple questions:

1. what are the limits of the federal government?

2. assuming your argument is true, how can we respect ANY part of the constitution (namely the first amendment)?






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Draconian Sanctions
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
2011 SECr Hall of Flame Inductee
Member since Oct 2008
39851 posts

re: "The founding fathers didn't know about x, y, or z. Things have changed since..


quote:



so tell me what you want to happen: a radical/sudden break or respect for precedent


Neither. I just hate these people who come on here talking about strict constructionism like it's still a real thing. For better or for worse it's gone and not even the poli board darlings support it. I'm venting not about the concepts themselves but the ignorance on here.






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SlowFlowPro
Stanford Fan
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
292034 posts

re: "The founding fathers didn't know about x, y, or z. Things have changed since..


quote:

I just hate these people who come on here talking about strict constructionism like it's still a real thing.

it is a real thing

not everyone believes in it







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vegas-tiger
LSU Fan
NV desert
Member since Dec 2003
1816 posts

re: "The founding fathers didn't know about x, y, or z. Things have changed since..


quote:

Most of the founders were lawyers smart guy



If by "founders", you mean signers of the Declaration, you are incorrect. It was less than 50% lawyers.

Sorry to hi jack thread, pet peeve, carry on, I will go away now.






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