"The founding fathers didn't know about x, y, or z. Things have changed since.. | TigerDroppings.com

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SoulGlo
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Member since Dec 2011
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"The founding fathers didn't know about x, y, or z. Things have changed since..



I hear this argument on every discussion about the constitution and its application in today's society. I sometimes call liberal talk shows and discuss topics on the air. Without fail, when they can't refute the language of the Constitution or the meaning behind that language, they drop the call and start talking about how the founders didn't know about life today. They didn't know what weapons we would have. They didn't know about DNA or abortion. Basically, they couldn't see past their own generation into the future.

This is where "the constitution is a living document" mentality comes from. My question is this...

If the framers knew virtually about anything today, why do we still have the constitution? Speech, religion, arms, search technologies, etc have ALL changed. Why is the Constitution rock solid on some things, yet its composers completely ignorant on others? Why mustn't we scrap it and start over, creating a new law regarding every advancement or change of society?







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Bestbank Tiger
Tulane Fan
Landmass
Member since Jan 2005
20403 posts

re: "The founding fathers didn't know about x, y, or z. Things have changed since..


It's the appeal to antiquity fallacy, except in reverse. Instead of saying "we should do it this way because we always have" the argument is "we did it this way in the past so we should change".

Anyone who advances that argument is a moron, period. By their "logic", there should be no freedom of speech because it was placed in the Constitution by a bunch of rich white slaveowners. But then, wasn't slavery abolished by a bunch of white men who knew nothing of DNA or atoms or dark matter? So I guess we should repeal the 13th Amendment.

Or we could use the rational approach. If the Constitution prevents us from doing something that needs to be done, we can avail ourselves of the process for amending it.






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Mike da Tigah
St. Denham Rougeville
Member since Feb 2005
41338 posts

re: "The founding fathers didn't know about x, y, or z. Things have changed since..


The argument of a very shallow and ignorant person. Principles don't change, and neither does man's nature or lust for power and control.

If anything has changed, it's our lack of principles, and for such a supposed enlightened and intelligent people with the answers to life's mysteries only a mouse click away, we sure are some dumb and misled fools.








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Champagne
New Orleans Saints Fan
French and Spanish Empire Border
Member since Oct 2007
12275 posts

re: "The founding fathers didn't know about x, y, or z. Things have changed since..


quote:

the constitution is a living document


It's not just living, but, Living and Breathing !

We need to let The Court and FedGov do their jobs in telling us what the Constitution means.






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Teddy Ruxpin
LSU Fan
New Orleans, LA
Member since Oct 2006
19739 posts

re: "The founding fathers didn't know about x, y, or z. Things have changed since..


All of this discussion is rendered moot by the amendment process.

That is where the "living document" argument essentially comes from, the avoidance of having to go through the effort of gaining a majority and having an amendment passed.



This post was edited on 1/25 at 8:32 pm


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CC
LSU Fan
Member since Feb 2004
13665 posts

re: "The founding fathers didn't know about x, y, or z. Things have changed since..


quote:

If the framers knew virtually about anything today, why do we still have the constitution?
The framers didn't know about television or televangelists so let's scrap the first amendment. The purpose of the constitution is to limit the power others can exercise over an individual.






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Bestbank Tiger
Tulane Fan
Landmass
Member since Jan 2005
20403 posts

re: "The founding fathers didn't know about x, y, or z. Things have changed since..


quote:

The purpose of the constitution is to limit the power others can exercise over an individual.


Bingeaux.






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weagle99
Member since Nov 2011
12642 posts
 Online 

re: "The founding fathers didn't know about x, y, or z. Things have changed since..


quote:

the constitution is a living document


Can I invite the Constitution over to my next cookout?






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Draconian Sanctions
LSU Fan
2011 SECr Hall of Flame Inductee
Member since Oct 2008
41893 posts

re: "The founding fathers didn't know about x, y, or z. Things have changed since..


quote:


"the constitution is a living document"


If you knew anything about how the USSC has operated for the last 70 years then you'd know that even the most conservative justices conceded this point long ago.

Strict Constructionism is a political tool, nothing more. As a legal theory it died before anyone that posts here was born. Accept it and move on.

Even the Poli Board's beloved Scalia doesn't adhere to this or is really even that close.



This post was edited on 1/25 at 9:30 pm


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RogerTheShrubber
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Juneau, AK
Member since Jan 2009
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re: "The founding fathers didn't know about x, y, or z. Things have changed since..


Founding fathers recognized we needed out freedom protected from government. Let's hang on to that.





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Draconian Sanctions
LSU Fan
2011 SECr Hall of Flame Inductee
Member since Oct 2008
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re: "The founding fathers didn't know about x, y, or z. Things have changed since..


And as a matter of fact even Scalia has slammed strict constructionism on multiple occasions.


This post was edited on 1/25 at 9:35 pm


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weagle99
Member since Nov 2011
12642 posts
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re: "The founding fathers didn't know about x, y, or z. Things have changed since..


quote:

And as a matter of fact even Scalia has slammed strict constructionism on multiple occasions.


Do you have examples? I'm genuinely curious.






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MrCarton
UNO Fan
Paradise Valley, MT
Member since Dec 2009
2286 posts

re: "The founding fathers didn't know about x, y, or z. Things have changed since..


quote:



If you knew anything about how the USSC has operated for the last 70 years then you'd know that even the most conservative justices conceded this point long ago.

Strict Constructionism is a political tool, nothing more. As a legal theory it died before anyone that posts here was born. Accept it and move on.


So your telling me a bunch of lawyers found the grey area between the writing? Shocking that they have cryptic theories beyond the grasp of the common literate American.







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Bestbank Tiger
Tulane Fan
Landmass
Member since Jan 2005
20403 posts

re: "The founding fathers didn't know about x, y, or z. Things have changed since..


quote:

Even the Poli Board's beloved Scalia doesn't adhere to this or is really even that close.


Is that somehow supposed to make it a less dangerous proposition?

I have a feeling you wouldn't be so dismissive of the Constitution if Santorum had just been inaugurated.






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Draconian Sanctions
LSU Fan
2011 SECr Hall of Flame Inductee
Member since Oct 2008
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re: "The founding fathers didn't know about x, y, or z. Things have changed since..


quote:


Do you have examples? I'm genuinely curious


Yeah he has a whole chapter about it in one of his books

LINK







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Draconian Sanctions
LSU Fan
2011 SECr Hall of Flame Inductee
Member since Oct 2008
41893 posts

re: "The founding fathers didn't know about x, y, or z. Things have changed since..


quote:



So your telling me a bunch of lawyers found the grey area between the writing? Shocking that they have cryptic theories beyond the grasp of the common literate American.


Most of the founders were lawyers smart guy






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Draconian Sanctions
LSU Fan
2011 SECr Hall of Flame Inductee
Member since Oct 2008
41893 posts

re: "The founding fathers didn't know about x, y, or z. Things have changed since..


quote:


Is that somehow supposed to make it a less dangerous proposition?


I mean I sort of get what you're saying but it's just not tenable in today's world. Hell It wasn't tenable in the world of the 1930's and 40's.

I appreciate the display of patriotism but it's a long dead philosophy. It's not even a relevant debate at this point. it's just something Rush Limbaugh uses to get y'all worked up.



This post was edited on 1/25 at 9:46 pm


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TheOcean
Florida State Fan
Member since Aug 2004
30544 posts

re: "The founding fathers didn't know about x, y, or z. Things have changed since..


quote:

All of this discussion is rendered moot by the amendment process.


If it wasn't near fricking impossible to pass an amendment, I would agree






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SlowFlowPro
Stanford Fan
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
299810 posts

re: "The founding fathers didn't know about x, y, or z. Things have changed since..


just because our supreme court was hijacked by radicals during the new deal (under threats from a shitty president) doesn't mean that it was a good step or that we just have to accept the shitty law they promoted

the knockout blow was the court under the civil rights era, who made the federal government a monolith to purposefully avoid the actual written words of the constitution. they saw results and molded the law to get the results






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SlowFlowPro
Stanford Fan
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
299810 posts

re: "The founding fathers didn't know about x, y, or z. Things have changed since..


quote:

If it wasn't near fricking impossible to pass an amendment, I would agree

there is a reason for that






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