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SoulGlo 
LSU Fan
Shinin' Through
Member since Dec 2011
1986 posts
| "The founding fathers didn't know about x, y, or z. Things have changed since.. (Posted on 1/25/13 at 7:53 pm)
I hear this argument on every discussion about the constitution and its application in today's society. I sometimes call liberal talk shows and discuss topics on the air. Without fail, when they can't refute the language of the Constitution or the meaning behind that language, they drop the call and start talking about how the founders didn't know about life today. They didn't know what weapons we would have. They didn't know about DNA or abortion. Basically, they couldn't see past their own generation into the future.
This is where "the constitution is a living document" mentality comes from. My question is this...
If the framers knew virtually about anything today, why do we still have the constitution? Speech, religion, arms, search technologies, etc have ALL changed. Why is the Constitution rock solid on some things, yet its composers completely ignorant on others? Why mustn't we scrap it and start over, creating a new law regarding every advancement or change of society?
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Bestbank Tiger 
Tulane Fan
Landmass Gulf Coast
Member since Jan 2005
15750 posts
| re: "The founding fathers didn't know about x, y, or z. Things have changed since.. (Posted on 1/25/13 at 7:57 pm to SoulGlo)
It's the appeal to antiquity fallacy, except in reverse. Instead of saying "we should do it this way because we always have" the argument is "we did it this way in the past so we should change".
Anyone who advances that argument is a moron, period. By their "logic", there should be no freedom of speech because it was placed in the Constitution by a bunch of rich white slaveowners. But then, wasn't slavery abolished by a bunch of white men who knew nothing of DNA or atoms or dark matter? So I guess we should repeal the 13th Amendment.
Or we could use the rational approach. If the Constitution prevents us from doing something that needs to be done, we can avail ourselves of the process for amending it.
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Mike da Tigah
Ft. New Richmond
Member since Feb 2005
36764 posts
| re: "The founding fathers didn't know about x, y, or z. Things have changed since.. (Posted on 1/25/13 at 8:27 pm to SoulGlo)
The argument of a very shallow and ignorant person. Principles don't change, and neither does man's nature or lust for power and control.
If anything has changed, it's our lack of principles, and for such a supposed enlightened and intelligent people with the answers to life's mysteries only a mouse click away, we sure are some dumb and misled fools.
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Champagne 
New Orleans Saints Fan
French and Spanish Empire Border
Member since Oct 2007
7926 posts
| re: "The founding fathers didn't know about x, y, or z. Things have changed since.. (Posted on 1/25/13 at 8:30 pm to SoulGlo)
quote:
the constitution is a living document
It's not just living, but, Living and Breathing !
We need to let The Court and FedGov do their jobs in telling us what the Constitution means.
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Teddy Ruxpin
LSU Fan
New Orleans, LA
Member since Oct 2006
12373 posts
| re: "The founding fathers didn't know about x, y, or z. Things have changed since.. (Posted on 1/25/13 at 8:31 pm to SoulGlo)
All of this discussion is rendered moot by the amendment process.
That is where the "living document" argument essentially comes from, the avoidance of having to go through the effort of gaining a majority and having an amendment passed.
This post was edited on 1/25 at 8:32 pm
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CC
LSU Fan
Member since Feb 2004
13287 posts
| re: "The founding fathers didn't know about x, y, or z. Things have changed since.. (Posted on 1/25/13 at 8:37 pm to SoulGlo)
quote:
If the framers knew virtually about anything today, why do we still have the constitution?
The framers didn't know about television or televangelists so let's scrap the first amendment. The purpose of the constitution is to limit the power others can exercise over an individual.
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Bestbank Tiger
Tulane Fan
Landmass Gulf Coast
Member since Jan 2005
15750 posts
| re: "The founding fathers didn't know about x, y, or z. Things have changed since.. (Posted on 1/25/13 at 9:07 pm to CC)
quote:
The purpose of the constitution is to limit the power others can exercise over an individual.
Bingeaux.
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weagle99
Ridin' on the Gus Bus
Member since Nov 2011
4162 posts
| re: "The founding fathers didn't know about x, y, or z. Things have changed since.. (Posted on 1/25/13 at 9:14 pm to SoulGlo)
quote:
the constitution is a living document
Can I invite the Constitution over to my next cookout?
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Draconian Sanctions
LSU Fan
San Francisco 49ers Fan
Member since Oct 2008
28268 posts
| re: "The founding fathers didn't know about x, y, or z. Things have changed since.. (Posted on 1/25/13 at 9:27 pm to SoulGlo)
quote:
"the constitution is a living document"
If you knew anything about how the USSC has operated for the last 70 years then you'd know that even the most conservative justices conceded this point long ago.
Strict Constructionism is a political tool, nothing more. As a legal theory it died before anyone that posts here was born. Accept it and move on.
Even the Poli Board's beloved Scalia doesn't adhere to this or is really even that close.
This post was edited on 1/25 at 9:30 pm
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RogerTheShrubber
LSU Fan
Juneau, AK
Member since Jan 2009
71884 posts
 Online
| re: "The founding fathers didn't know about x, y, or z. Things have changed since.. (Posted on 1/25/13 at 9:30 pm to SoulGlo)
Founding fathers recognized we needed out freedom protected from government. Let's hang on to that.
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Draconian Sanctions
LSU Fan
San Francisco 49ers Fan
Member since Oct 2008
28268 posts
| re: "The founding fathers didn't know about x, y, or z. Things have changed since.. (Posted on 1/25/13 at 9:33 pm to RogerTheShrubber)
And as a matter of fact even Scalia has slammed strict constructionism on multiple occasions.
This post was edited on 1/25 at 9:35 pm
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weagle99
Ridin' on the Gus Bus
Member since Nov 2011
4162 posts
| re: "The founding fathers didn't know about x, y, or z. Things have changed since.. (Posted on 1/25/13 at 9:38 pm to Draconian Sanctions)
quote:
And as a matter of fact even Scalia has slammed strict constructionism on multiple occasions.
Do you have examples? I'm genuinely curious.
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MrCarton 
Alabama Fan
Nashville
Member since Dec 2009
1643 posts
| re: "The founding fathers didn't know about x, y, or z. Things have changed since.. (Posted on 1/25/13 at 9:38 pm to Draconian Sanctions)
quote:
If you knew anything about how the USSC has operated for the last 70 years then you'd know that even the most conservative justices conceded this point long ago.
Strict Constructionism is a political tool, nothing more. As a legal theory it died before anyone that posts here was born. Accept it and move on.
So your telling me a bunch of lawyers found the grey area between the writing? Shocking that they have cryptic theories beyond the grasp of the common literate American.
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Bestbank Tiger
Tulane Fan
Landmass Gulf Coast
Member since Jan 2005
15750 posts
| re: "The founding fathers didn't know about x, y, or z. Things have changed since.. (Posted on 1/25/13 at 9:40 pm to Draconian Sanctions)
quote:
Even the Poli Board's beloved Scalia doesn't adhere to this or is really even that close.
Is that somehow supposed to make it a less dangerous proposition?
I have a feeling you wouldn't be so dismissive of the Constitution if Santorum had just been inaugurated.
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Draconian Sanctions
LSU Fan
San Francisco 49ers Fan
Member since Oct 2008
28268 posts
| re: "The founding fathers didn't know about x, y, or z. Things have changed since.. (Posted on 1/25/13 at 9:41 pm to weagle99)
quote:
Do you have examples? I'm genuinely curious
Yeah he has a whole chapter about it in one of his books
LINK
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Draconian Sanctions
LSU Fan
San Francisco 49ers Fan
Member since Oct 2008
28268 posts
| re: "The founding fathers didn't know about x, y, or z. Things have changed since.. (Posted on 1/25/13 at 9:43 pm to MrCarton)
quote:
So your telling me a bunch of lawyers found the grey area between the writing? Shocking that they have cryptic theories beyond the grasp of the common literate American.
Most of the founders were lawyers smart guy
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Draconian Sanctions
LSU Fan
San Francisco 49ers Fan
Member since Oct 2008
28268 posts
| re: "The founding fathers didn't know about x, y, or z. Things have changed since.. (Posted on 1/25/13 at 9:44 pm to Bestbank Tiger)
quote:
Is that somehow supposed to make it a less dangerous proposition?
I mean I sort of get what you're saying but it's just not tenable in today's world. Hell It wasn't tenable in the world of the 1930's and 40's.
I appreciate the display of patriotism but it's a long dead philosophy. It's not even a relevant debate at this point. it's just something Rush Limbaugh uses to get y'all worked up.
This post was edited on 1/25 at 9:46 pm
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TheOcean 
Florida State Fan
Tampa Bay, FL
Member since Aug 2004
23261 posts
| re: "The founding fathers didn't know about x, y, or z. Things have changed since.. (Posted on 1/25/13 at 9:45 pm to Teddy Ruxpin)
quote:
All of this discussion is rendered moot by the amendment process.
If it wasn't near fricking impossible to pass an amendment, I would agree 
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SlowFlowPro 
Stanford Fan
Equality is a circle, not a =
Member since Jan 2004
263407 posts
Online
| re: "The founding fathers didn't know about x, y, or z. Things have changed since.. (Posted on 1/25/13 at 9:47 pm to Draconian Sanctions)
just because our supreme court was hijacked by radicals during the new deal (under threats from a shitty president) doesn't mean that it was a good step or that we just have to accept the shitty law they promoted
the knockout blow was the court under the civil rights era, who made the federal government a monolith to purposefully avoid the actual written words of the constitution. they saw results and molded the law to get the results
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SlowFlowPro
Stanford Fan
Equality is a circle, not a =
Member since Jan 2004
263407 posts
Online
| re: "The founding fathers didn't know about x, y, or z. Things have changed since.. (Posted on 1/25/13 at 9:48 pm to TheOcean)
quote:
If it wasn't near fricking impossible to pass an amendment, I would agree
there is a reason for that
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