Issue with Sandy Hook | Page 4 | TigerDroppings.com

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nobodytooimportant
Member since Oct 2012
657 posts

re: Issue with Sandy Hook


quote:

But people say they were laughing as a way to cope with the tragedy.


I quoted it above from Scientific American, and look I am providing a quote again (not too hard)
quote:

oscillation between sadness and mirth repeated itself in study after study … Time and again, a grief-stricken person’s expression would change from dejection to laughter and back






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mograyback
Missouri Fan
Member since Jul 2011
7102 posts

re: Issue with Sandy Hook


quote:



I quoted it above from Scientific American, and look I am providing a quote again (not too hard)


This is rather hilarious.

I'm fine with people brushing off the laughing.. but be honest about it, people are just saying that is how they're coping with the tragedy. And that is all it is...






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nobodytooimportant
Member since Oct 2012
657 posts

re: Issue with Sandy Hook


Be honest about what? That many people deal with tragedy by laughing? Are you a psychologist? Do you have a background that would allow you to dispute the Scientific American article?





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Porky
Arkansas Fan
Member since Aug 2008
12879 posts

re: Issue with Sandy Hook


I found it odd that the parents weren't allowed to identify the bodies, except by photo. In spite of the coroner's reasoning, that would normally anger and increase the emotional pain for most parents who have just lost a child. They should have been given a choice.





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mograyback
Missouri Fan
Member since Jul 2011
7102 posts

re: Issue with Sandy Hook


quote:

Be honest about what? That many people deal with tragedy by laughing? Are you a psychologist? Do you have a background that would allow you to dispute the Scientific American article?


? This is such a fail.

quote:

That many people deal with tragedy by laughing? Are you a psychologist?


That is what people have been saying that are disputing the laughing...

quote:

Do you have a background that would allow you to dispute the Scientific American article?


What is there to dispute? The article says what people have been saying, that sometimes when people are dealing with trauma they go between many emotions. That is the argument from the people disputing claims that the laughing is evidence of fraud.






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nobodytooimportant
Member since Oct 2012
657 posts

re: Issue with Sandy Hook


quote:

I found it odd that the parents weren't allowed to identify the bodies, except by photo. In spite of the coroner's reasoning, that would normally anger and increase the emotional pain for most parents who have just lost a child. They should have been given a choice.


Its odd I guess, but considering you had a mass shooting of children in a place with little violence, I don't find the authorities decision to be suspicious as they probably aren't experts on handling this type of thing. Further in the context of a conspiracy, how does this advance the conspiracy?

Also at some point the parents got the bodies back as they buried them.






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nobodytooimportant
Member since Oct 2012
657 posts

re: Issue with Sandy Hook


I guess I am am completely lost as to what argument you are making. I am understanding from your previous responses you find the laughing suspicious. IS that true, yes or no?





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RLDSC FAN
Southern Cal Fan
Rancho Cucamonga, CA
Member since Nov 2008
16219 posts

re: Issue with Sandy Hook


quote:

mograyback



question for you? do you believe the govt is involved in all these mass shootings? and if so is it the whole govt including republicans? are republicans in with Obama to try and take our guns away? or is this all orchestrated by the democrats while completely hiding it from the repubs? I'll hang up and listen






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Porky
Arkansas Fan
Member since Aug 2008
12879 posts

re: Issue with Sandy Hook


quote:

Further in the context of a conspiracy, how does this advance the conspiracy?


It just doesn't help debunk any theories. Had I been one of the parents, I would have demanded to see the body myself so there would be absolutely no doubt what happened.
quote:

Also at some point the parents got the bodies back as they buried them.

I haven't heard any reports either way re: their confirmation/ID of the bodies. Have you heard anything re: this? I don't know.



This post was edited on 1/20 at 11:32 pm


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RLDSC FAN
Southern Cal Fan
Rancho Cucamonga, CA
Member since Nov 2008
16219 posts

re: Issue with Sandy Hook


quote:

I know I would be mad at the world, not laughing and joking in front of cameras.



I have a close friend who lost his son last year. that day he was laughing with us then crying then laughing again. everyone grieves differently why is that so hard for some of you to understand?






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mograyback
Missouri Fan
Member since Jul 2011
7102 posts

re: Issue with Sandy Hook


quote:

I guess I am am completely lost as to what argument you are making. I am understanding from your previous responses you find the laughing suspicious. IS that true, yes or no


You're lost because you lost yourself in this one. Your post before this one was contradicting.

Yes I think the laughing is suspicious. It hasn't been a cornerstone for me in justifying a conspiracy. I've had no problem with people writing it off as a coping mechanism or emotional reaction to the tragedy. I disagree, but it's not something that we can prove one way or the other; it's a subjective issue up for interpretation. Something like finding out which bullets were used and if that matches the official story would be the type of thing that would allow no interpretational wiggle room.



This post was edited on 1/20 at 11:33 pm


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nobodytooimportant
Member since Oct 2012
657 posts

re: Issue with Sandy Hook


quote:

t just doesn't help debunk any theories


I am pretty sure it is incumbent on those advancing theories to provide evidence for them, not asking that every action the authorities took have a purpose to debunk conspiracy theories.

quote:

I haven't heard any reports either way re: their confirmation/ID of the bodies. Have you heard anything re: this? I don't know.


Well everyone was buried and no one complained about not having the bodies. If the parents were in on it, which they would have to be to not complain about not having the bodies, then there is no point hiding the bodies from them in the first place.






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mograyback
Missouri Fan
Member since Jul 2011
7102 posts

re: Issue with Sandy Hook


quote:



I have a close friend who lost his son last year. that day he was laughing with us then crying then laughing again. everyone grieves differently why is that so hard for some of you to understand?


This issue is really lame because no matter what it doesn't prove anything because it's subjective.

But, I know the type of laughing/crying grieving that you're talking about. It's not what was going on in this case. This guy went from calm cool laughing and saying 'we starting' into an odd change of character once he reached the podium.



This post was edited on 1/20 at 11:36 pm


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nobodytooimportant
Member since Oct 2012
657 posts

re: Issue with Sandy Hook


quote:

Your post before this one was contradicting.


Please point out the contradictions in my posts. My posts have simply said laughing isn't unusual, see Scientific American.

quote:

Yes I think the laughing is suspicious


Why do you think the laughing is suspicious in light of the fact that I think we just agreed that laughing is a normal coping mechanism?






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RLDSC FAN
Southern Cal Fan
Rancho Cucamonga, CA
Member since Nov 2008
16219 posts

re: Issue with Sandy Hook


quote:

I haven't heard any reports either way re: their confirmation/ID of the bodies. Have you heard anything re: this? I don't know.



yes I have. one of the victims mother Veronique Pozer had a very candid interview recently where she describes what her son looked like after. Ill try and find the article for you. She talks about how he had something covering his jaw because his jaw had been blown off.

ETA
quote:

"(Veronique) felt that (Noah's) body had suffered too many indignities already; she was adamant that he not be autopsied. She wanted him to be buried with a Jewish prayer shawl and with a clear stone with a white angel inside — an 'angel stone' — in each of his hands. Veronique was only able to put the stone in his right hand because the left was 'not altogether there.' ... She asked the funeral director to put the other one in the left hand spot. 'I made him promise and he did.'

"Veronique told me that Connecticut Gov. Dannel Malloy visited her in the funeral home, and she brought him to see Noah's open casket. I asked her why it was important for her and for the governor to see Noah's body. 'I needed it to have a face for him,' she said. 'If there is ever a piece of legislation that comes across his desk, I needed it to be real for him.'"

Zeveloff pressed Veronique Pozner on why she felt the need to see her son's body. "It is not up to me to say I am only going to look at you and deal with you when you are alive, that I am going to block out the reality of what you look like when you are dead," she told Zeveloff. "And as a little boy, you have to go in the ground. If I am going to shut my eyes to that I am not his mother. I had to bear it. I had to do it."

Unprompted, Pozner continued: "We all saw how beautiful he was. He had thick, shiny hair, beautiful long eyelashes that rested on his cheeks. He looked like he was sleeping. But the reality of it was under the cloth he had covering his mouth. ... His jaw was blown away. I just want people to know the ugliness of it so we don't talk about it abstractly, like these little angels just went to heaven.




This post was edited on 1/20 at 11:47 pm


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Porky
Arkansas Fan
Member since Aug 2008
12879 posts

re: Issue with Sandy Hook


quote:

yes I have. one of the victims mother Veronique Pozer had a very candid interview recently where she describes what her son looked like after. Ill try and find the article for you. She talks about how he had something covering his jaw because his jaw had been blown off.

Thanks. That actually proves something. Had it been my child, I would have wanted to see every wound and the type of bullet used, since the ME contended that it was the type which releases its energy within the tissue. To me, that sounds a whole lot more like a hollow point, sub-sonic, i.e. <1100 fps pistol round, not a full metal jacket .223/inch diameter high power round with a velocity @3000 fps.



This post was edited on 1/21 at 12:12 am


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mograyback
Missouri Fan
Member since Jul 2011
7102 posts

re: Issue with Sandy Hook


quote:


Why do you think the laughing is suspicious in light of the fact that I think we just agreed that laughing is a normal coping mechanism?


I have no idea why it would be suspicious that a man would be laughing and completely at ease, says 'are we starting', then get's to the podium and completely changes character... possibly millions of people think this is suspicious, it's not a reach. (And that scenario is a little different than what is being referred to in the article and by people with personal stories of laughing while also upset/distressed).

This is a wash out issue. Which is why this is the most time I've spent discussing it, it's pointless. I can not prove the laughing is proof of a fraud, and saying it's a coping mechanism doesn't prove anything either. It's a subjective thing, it's a wash issue.






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MrCarton
UNO Fan
Paradise Valley, MT
Member since Dec 2009
2241 posts

re: Issue with Sandy Hook


No, it doesn't prove anything. 223 has a pretty unpredictable wound pattern especially when it hits solid bone (jaw). Sometimes it goes through and through with pencil holes on each end, sometimes it explodes out the other side. Sometimes you cannot find the exit wound.

I have literally seen the wound described from 55gr .223 at about 15 feet. It is very possible.






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Porky
Arkansas Fan
Member since Aug 2008
12879 posts

re: Issue with Sandy Hook


Here's the link:
LINK
quote:

No, it doesn't prove anything.

Maybe not but it does say, according to "Jewish Daily Forward", that she says that she saw the body and wounds.
quote:

223 has a pretty unpredictable wound pattern especially when it hits solid bone (jaw). Sometimes it goes through and through with pencil holes on each end, sometimes it explodes out the other side. Sometimes you cannot find the exit wound.

I have literally seen the wound described from 55gr .223 at about 15 feet. It is very possible.


True, but usually not with a flesh wound. But the medical examiner said something to the that the bullets were the type that expended their energy within the tissue. I would have wanted to verify for myself.





This post was edited on 1/21 at 12:37 am


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MrCarton
UNO Fan
Paradise Valley, MT
Member since Dec 2009
2241 posts

re: Issue with Sandy Hook


I currently think the rifle was used primarily if not exclusively. The description of the wounds would not be enough to sway my opinion because there is no "signature" wound produced by either round. You would likely have a mixed matched assortment of wounds because the targets were real people and not pig gelatin.

When I first heard the news I instantly thought it must be a rifle, because of the high mortality rate. 100% to my knowledge. Even a trained pistol shooter would have a hard time getting that many rounds off, while maintaining a fatality rate of 100%.
The level of concentration it would require to ensure that each individual had received at least one lethal round, likely 2 lethal rounds is pretty astonishing among all the chaos I assume there was.

As most of you know, if you blink from anticipation, take your eyes off the front sight post or jerk push or pull the trigger there is a SIGNIFICANTLY HIGH CHANCE you will miss the target (a 6 year old) completely, much less will you be able to guarantee you shot was lethal. I do not believe this adam lanza guy had a level of comfort required to produce 100% fatality rate with a pistol.

Rifle is a different story. The same fundamentals apply, but the sight radius is much longer than the pitol. It is typically easier to provide a uniform grip and even if you never looked down the sights, a person with minimal training could likely "point and shoot" with a high level of success at the distances described. Something I think very difficult for the same person to do with a pistol.

The shocking thing to me is that was a 100% death rate. 28 people were killed that day and NOT ONE PERSON SURVIVED HIS OR HER WOUNDS. That is astonishing. Typically this would mean an execution style massacre ( va tech) but even then some children would likely make the process difficult.

Anyway...that's all I got






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