Public school teaches about "white privilege" - Page 11 - TigerDroppings.com

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NC_Tigah
LSU Fan
Member since Sep 2003
48264 posts

re: Public school teaches about "white privilege"


quote:

So I guess some people should give up, use their "IQ" as an excuse and simply never try? Thats definitely not dangerous to society, amirite?
No. No. No.
By all means let's just ignore scientific results, espouse what we hoped the science would say, and hope the whole thing disappears.






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onmymedicalgrind
LSU Fan
Atlanta
Member since Dec 2012
3382 posts

re: Public school teaches about "white privilege"


quote:

Without touching on the IQ angle again, society in "black America" has created an atmosphere that seems to praise poor choices. . Aversions to dual parent household and educations are dooming many before they have a chance.

Agree.
quote:

Many also seem to find it easy to blame others for their own shortcomings.

Agree.
quote:

Everyone has been given the tools to escape poverty. Some don't take advantage of it.

Agree.

I never argued against any of those points. It's a sad reality many do not want to face, but we must be able to face the problems in order to address them. Using genetics as an excuse (the only thing I have really been arguing against) to lower work ethic or expectations won't help anything.

quote:

They why state it?


I'll be honest, I'm a little confused as to what you were referring to when you said "this belief." I was using and stating CT's points to draw attention to its shortcomings, and that quote might have been in the middle of that.






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onmymedicalgrind
LSU Fan
Atlanta
Member since Dec 2012
3382 posts

re: Public school teaches about "white privilege"


quote:

Are you really saying there is no significant genetic component

I didn't say that, I said this "genetic component" has not been empirically proven to differ between races in a way that impacts cognitive functioning to the point some are born with a clear advantage.

Please, do a literature search and tell me more about this "genetic component." What chromosome does it lie on? How many base pairs is it? How many different alleles are present in the population? What are its gene products? Are there isoforms depending on the tissue? Which metabolic pathway or stage of development does it most impact?

quote:

How do you explain the massive failure in the Black community if intelligence can be significantly improved by social intervention?

Well, off the top of my head, maybe people in the "black community" are not applying these "social interventions."






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onmymedicalgrind
LSU Fan
Atlanta
Member since Dec 2012
3382 posts

re: Public school teaches about "white privilege"


quote:

By all means let's just ignore scientific results, espouse what we hoped the science would say, and hope the whole thing disappears.


I'll ask you the same questions:

What chromosome does it lie on? How many base pairs is it? How many different alleles are present in the population? What are its gene products? Are there isoforms depending on the tissue? Which metabolic pathway or stage of development does it most impact?




PS: Have you ever wondered why most of these articles concerning race, intelligence and genetics are usually done by psychologists? Why no human genetics or biomedical informatics labs? Surely if there is a distinct genetic component, it has to be somewhere, right? Human genome project should have uncovered something, right?






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CarrolltonTiger
LSU Fan
New Orleans
Member since Aug 2005
46228 posts

re: Public school teaches about "white privilege"


quote:

Well, off the top of my head, maybe people in the "black community" are not applying these "social interventions."


Nutrition assistance, free health care, free or subsidized housing, early education, 13K a kid in public schools, grants for college, retraining programs, rehabilitating programs, detox programs, safe sex programs,

Organizations to find every potential applicant to expand the benefit base and bureaucracy

Yeah, the community is under served and the Blacks don't like social services that must be the problem!







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onmymedicalgrind
LSU Fan
Atlanta
Member since Dec 2012
3382 posts

re: Public school teaches about "white privilege"


quote:

Nutrition assistance, free health care, free or subsidized housing, early education, 13K a kid in public schools, grants for college, retraining programs, rehabilitating programs, detox programs, safe sex programs,

Organizations to find every potential applicant to expand the benefit base and bureaucracy

Yeah, the community is under served and the Blacks don't like social services that must be the problem!


I took "social interventions" to mean a stable household, parents that emphasized the value of education, work ethic, etc. which is why I placed it in quotes.

Regardless, the programs you listed are not pertinent to our discussion. Try to stay focused.






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NC_Tigah
LSU Fan
Member since Sep 2003
48264 posts

re: Public school teaches about "white privilege"


quote:

I'll ask you the same questions:

What chromosome does it lie on? How many base pairs is it? How many different alleles are present in the population?
Well that's a hell of a stupid question isn't it. Where phenotypic expression is clear, genotype will follow. Phenotypic expression is clear in this case.
quote:

Are there isoforms
Almost assuredly.
quote:

Which metabolic pathway or stage of development does it most impact?
Did you read the medical paper? Sometimes an attempt to be cute is silly. You're getting there.





This post was edited on 1/19 at 8:04 pm


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onmymedicalgrind
LSU Fan
Atlanta
Member since Dec 2012
3382 posts

re: Public school teaches about "white privilege"


quote:

Where phenotypic expression is clear, genotype will follow. Phenotypic expression is clear in this case.

Actually no, thats not right and is definitely a big myth. When's the last time you have taken a genetics class? All the ones I've ever taken when to great lengths to make sure that we understood that genotype and phenotype, although related, have a complex relationship. In other words, phenotype does NOT always point to an underlying genotype.

The phenotypic expression of quantitative traits lies on a continuum with regards to relative contributions from environment and genetics. The extent to which factor dominates (genotype vs environment) the phenotypic expression can range greatly. Some traits are exclusively determined by genetics, others are determined by one's environment.

Just because there is an underlying phenotype does not mean that genotype is the predominant (or even significant) contributor. C'mon man, this is basic Genetics 101.

ETA: It makes sense to me now why you believe what you believe regards to race and intelligence. You were interpreting data by utilizing a faulty premise ("clear" phenotype = "clear" genotype).



This post was edited on 1/19 at 8:10 pm


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CarrolltonTiger
LSU Fan
New Orleans
Member since Aug 2005
46228 posts

re: Public school teaches about "white privilege"


quote:

I took "social interventions" to mean a stable household, parents that emphasized the value of education, work ethic, etc. which is why I placed it in quotes.


Interesting, sounds like a call for moral and ethical behavior intervention, besides the efforts to provide an environment (nutrition, housing, health care) that will nurture the IQ growth of our at risk population, and provide an education and job skills, and rehabilitation for those that need second and third chances and have fricked up seriously on their path to being all they can be.

quote:

Regardless, the programs you listed are not pertinent to our discussion


This 200 plus posts thread has expanded and my comment was very pertinent.






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onmymedicalgrind
LSU Fan
Atlanta
Member since Dec 2012
3382 posts

re: Public school teaches about "white privilege"


quote:

Interesting, sounds like a call for moral and ethical behavior intervention

No, just a call for parents to be better parents. You'd be surprised how far that gets you.






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NC_Tigah
LSU Fan
Member since Sep 2003
48264 posts

re: Public school teaches about "white privilege"


quote:

Actually no, thats not right and is definitely a big myth. When's the last time you have taken a genetics class? All the ones I've ever taken when to great lengths to make sure that we understood that genotype and phenotype, although related, have a complex relationship. In other words, phenotype does NOT always point to an underlying genotype.
Oh Good Lord dude.
Just stop!
Please, just wake up and stop.

A myth?
Seriously?
A big myth?
Really?
Phenotype has nothing to do with genotype?
Is that what your genetics class taught you?
If so, you should sue your school for return of your tuition.

Seriously.
Sue them . . . .You'll win.






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onmymedicalgrind
LSU Fan
Atlanta
Member since Dec 2012
3382 posts

re: Public school teaches about "white privilege"


quote:

Oh Good Lord dude.
Just stop!
Please, just wake up and stop.

A myth?
Seriously?
A big myth?
Really?

First off, myth was probably not the best word choice. Misconception would have been better. The rest of my post still stands 100%

You still didn't tell me when the last genetics class you've taken was.
quote:

Phenotype has nothing to do with genotype?

Quote where I said phenotype has nothing to do with genotype. I'll wait.

I said they have a complicated, often not easily predictable relationship. Is that wrong? Is every bit of phenotypic variation you see in the human population primarily rooted in genetic causes? Or does the environment not have alot of say as to whats going to happen to ones phenotype?

Let me break this down for you further since obviously this is a strange concept to you (shouldn't be if you took genetics in high school, for certain college):

Phenotype = genotype + environmental factors

Depending on the trait, the relative contribution of these two things on the right side of the equal sign can vary. Does that make sense?

I understand you're getting defensive because you made the most basic error when it comes to genetics ("clear" phenotype must point to "clear" genotype) and I called you out on it, but no need. We all make mistakes.
quote:

If so, you should sue your school for return of your tuition.

Full scholarship, baby






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NC_Tigah
LSU Fan
Member since Sep 2003
48264 posts

re: Public school teaches about "white privilege"


quote:

First off, myth was probably not the best word choice.
No kidding.
quote:

Misconception would have been better.
No.
quote:

Quote where I said phenotype has nothing to do with genotype. I'll wait.
As I posted this, and various iterations throughout the thread, no other conclusion could be drawn. None. It's clear you're attempting to deny and/or minimize heritable IQ characteristics.
quote:

I said they have a complicated, often not easily predictable relationship. Is that wrong? Is every bit of phenotypic variation you see in the human population primarily rooted in genetic causes?
Again, if that was your intent, why ignore posts establishing phenotypic variation, and instead register the arguments you did discounting those posts?
quote:

does the environment not have alot of say as to whats going to happen to ones phenotype?
Hello?


Mayan skull as an example.

quote:

I understand you're getting defensive because you made the most basic error when it comes to genetics ("clear" phenotype must point to "clear" genotype)
No honey, you made (1) mistakes in literacy (2) mistakes in assimilation (3) mistakes in assumption.

quote:

You still didn't tell me when the last genetics class you've taken was.
Last class?
Medical School.






This post was edited on 1/19 at 9:46 pm


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onmymedicalgrind
LSU Fan
Atlanta
Member since Dec 2012
3382 posts

re: Public school teaches about "white privilege"


quote:

As I posted this, and various iterations throughout the thread, no other conclusion could be drawn.


And I have posted many links throughout this thread to show otherwise. Just because you choose to ignore them or flippantly disregard the authors conclusions and critiques doesn't mean there is only one viable conclusion.

quote:

It's clear you're attempting to deny and/or minimize heritable IQ characteristics.


Ahh, see thats blunder #2 in as many posts. Your conflating separate concepts here. Heritability within groups does not necessarily point to genetic underpinnings as the cause of variation between groups.

Here's a popular anecdote used to illustrate this:
quote:

Suppose you buy a bag of seed corn from a hardware store. This is not some sort of fancy cloned corn, but ordinary genetically varied corn of the sort that farmers planted long before there was a science of genetics. Grow one handful of it in a carefully controlled environment in which the seeds get uniform illumination and uniform nutrient solution. The corn plants will vary in height, and because the environment is uniform, the heritability of height will be 100 percent. Now take another handful of corn from the same bag, and grow it in a similarly uniform environment but with a uniformly poor nutrient solution. Again, the plants will vary in height, but all will be stunted. Once more the heritability of height is 100 percent. Despite the 100 percent heritabilities of height within each group, the difference in height between the groups is entirely environmentally caused. So we can have total heritability within groups, substantial variation between groups, but no genetic difference between the groups.

This is especially pertinent in this discussion when taken with the fact that more variation exists within whites then between white and blacks.
quote:

Last class?
Medical School

Ok, so it's probably been a while. Most specialties won't need to know much about genetics (at least to the extent to which we discussed)-- maybe you just forgot alot. I'm in med school now, so my memory is nice and fresh!






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NC_Tigah
LSU Fan
Member since Sep 2003
48264 posts

re: Public school teaches about "white privilege"






This post was edited on 1/19 at 10:07 pm


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rb
Georgia Fan
Wrightsville,Ga
Member since Sep 2012
1601 posts

re: Public school teaches about "white privilege"


I don't think an ear of corn is anywhere near as complex as the human genome, try again boss man!!! Take a glance at homogeneous sub Saharan contributions... vs say... western European, and get back with the rest of us idiots .It's fairly cut n dry .I don't need a P.H.D. to recognize the obvious,just common sense.





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onmymedicalgrind
LSU Fan
Atlanta
Member since Dec 2012
3382 posts

re: Public school teaches about "white privilege"


quote:

Well see, that qualifies as a point of disagreement.

Ehh. What part of the seed example I posted did you not follow or disagree with? I think it does a pretty good job of illustrating how some trait can be heritable within a group, yet differences between groups can have non-genetic (environmental) factors that predominate.
quote:

Was your misconception concerning heritability something you were taught, or is it something you simply misunderstood?

What misconception is this exactly?






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onmymedicalgrind
LSU Fan
Atlanta
Member since Dec 2012
3382 posts

re: Public school teaches about "white privilege"


quote:

I don't think an ear of corn is anywhere near as complex as the human genome, try again boss man!!!

True, thats why it is used as an example to illustrate concepts often misunderstood. The relative complexity of the genomes is irrelevant to the point the anecdote is conveying.

And your right, there is nothing more complex than human cognition, so let's stop acting like we have this all figured out, shall we?

quote:

Take a glance at homogeneous sub Saharan contributions... vs say... western European, and get back with the rest of us idiots .It's fairly cut n dry .I don't need a P.H.D. to recognize the obvious,just common sense.

Word.






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Bama323_15
Member since Jan 2013
163 posts

re: Public school teaches about "white privilege"


In my humble opinion...
The inequities in our society, if that is the correct term, are more attributable to the socio-economic class we are born in to rather than our race. When poverty of any race is examined...we can identify similar behaviors, outcomes etc. Race does seem to be the determining factor.

As much as some want to focus on the negatives of our country...the simple fact that black, white, brown can advance themselves is something to be proud of. People of all color have been born poor, uneducated, etc and improved themselves and their future family members. People of all colors have been born poor and used our social programs to sustain a life of poverty for themselves and remain stagnant, (rather than a system of giving them assistance in improving their situation)...therby making advancement of future generations of their family more difficult.

No race is exempt from human nature...from racism to self-determination.

I had an excellent athlete, that I had convinced to come out for HS football quit after 2 weeks. When I asked why...he said his mother was afraid she would not be able to get his check if it was found out he was playing sports. That mother was poor...(add your own negative descriptors here). Some would want to make her race the reason for her short sighted decision...but that decision was not made because of race...it was an individual decision. A decision that makes it more likely that her son will remain in the same situation.

We can frame these as class/individual differences or race differences. As long as either side base these on race we exempt people from self responsibility. Racism exists, reverse racism exists...get over it.

If I was born with privelege...I still had to make decisions for myself...not because of my race..as we all do. Yes I was born into a better situation than some blacks...and some whites, etc. Some of those folks have advanced further economically than I have...because of their individual decisions. Some have remained stagnant or digressed...because of their individual decisions.









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CarrolltonTiger
LSU Fan
New Orleans
Member since Aug 2005
46228 posts

re: Public school teaches about "white privilege"


quote:

When I asked why...he said his mother was afraid she would not be able to get his check if it was found out he was playing sports.


How should an ethical individual react to the knowledge of disability fraud?

Social Security obviously has little interest in the process; Congress created SSI as an income transfer to clients since it has little basis in reason for what it covers.


Should a citizen or tax payer be concerned when an excellent athlete with at least the aptitude for school to be eligible to play sports is getting a disability check?






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