Public school teaches about "white privilege" - Page 9 - TigerDroppings.com

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NC_Tigah
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re: Public school teaches about "white privilege"


quote:

You obviously don't know what is meant by the differences between a biological vs social construct
O . M . G . !

quote:

Sure, there are genetic factors at play that dictates whether a person will have high or low melanin production, but the same can be said about stature, eye color, hair texture, earlobe attachement, etc. These are all well-documented and scientifically proven, and they represent normal genetic variation within a distinct species.
Insofar as phenotypic traits are isolated to a genetic subpopulation (i.e., race), those traits constitute biological rather than social construct. Since you think I don't know what is meant by the differences between a biological vs social construct, you'll just have to trust me on this.
quote:

Are you familiar with phrenology?
Are you familiar with hypertension, melanoma, sarcoidosis, predilection for gastric carcinoma, Asian vs African athletic differences, etc? "People believe significant differences must exist" because significant differences do exist . . . . . and in biological construct no less.

Got it?
quote:

It's just that SOCIALLY, because of the importance we placed on race from a historical perspective, people believe significant differences must exist.
No.
It is because IQ study, after IQ study, after IQ study, after IQ study, after IQ study, after IQ study, after IQ study, after IQ study, after IQ study have all shown a similar result. i.e., Asians score better than Caucasians.

Is that because people assume significant Asian-Caucasians differences must exist?
People assume Asians are a "superior" intellectual race?
Is that your argument?






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CarrolltonTiger
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re: Public school teaches about "white privilege"


quote:

I disagree, I believe that today it is a hell of a privilage to be born in the Unites States.


What are you disagreeing with?






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CarrolltonTiger
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re: Public school teaches about "white privilege"


onmymedicalgrind would you consider the mental tests used to determine SSI for children with functional mental disabilities to be valid or invalid? What exactly do you think these tests are measuring?


SSI break down is about 50% Black, 50% white with Hispanic being 1/3 of the white 50%. So black children about 1/6 of the population get 50% of the mental disability determination. Is that black privilege?

non Hispanic White children about 66% of the population get 33% of the determinations.

Since these black kids getting SSI at a 600% greater rate than white kids have these other intelligences you write about and are just as mentally functional should their SSI be cut off?


Why no complaint about the disparity when it gets black families money, and just when it is a positive indicator?






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onmymedicalgrind
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re: Public school teaches about "white privilege"


First off, let me clarify because my wording that you keep quoting wasn't as clear as it should have been, and I apologize for that. Instead of saying simply "significant differences exist" I should have more clearly stated "significant innate, genetic (DNA underpinnings) differences must exist" since that is the basis for our entire debate, correct? Genetic processes outside of one's control that differ between races which are responsible for discrepant scores on measures of intelligence.
quote:

Are you familiar with hypertension, melanoma, sarcoidosis, predilection for gastric carcinoma, Asian vs African athletic differences, etc? "People believe significant differences must exist" because significant differences do exist . . . . . and in biological construct no less.


Quite familiar, actually. You can list a million things, it does not change the fact that just because there are certain underlying genetic reasons for an African-Americans increased susceptibility to diabetes (again, well-researched and many genes have been implicated, such as isoforms of the insulin receptor, for example) among other things, has nothing to do with whether genetic factors are also responsible for the gap in reported IQ scores. That requires its own research to prove, and it must implicate its own gene or sets of genes.
quote:

It is because IQ study, after IQ study, after IQ study, after IQ study, after IQ study, after IQ study, after IQ study, after IQ study, after IQ study have all shown a similar result. i.e., Asians score better than Caucasians.

Again, how does this empirically, without question, validate that there must be an innate, genetic cause at play here?

I'm sure IQ study, after IQ study, after IQ study of high-income households vs those in low-income households will show a similar IQ gap. Does that point to an innate, genetic cause? There's no other possible explanation?

Not to mention, metabolic pathways and other physiological processes relating to glucose, melanoma, and hypertension (as you mentioned) have been well-elucidated and quantified through decades and decades of pain-staking research. This better facilitates cross-racial/ethnic studies concerning differing susceptibilities to these diseases because we know where in the DNA to look at and what gene products to assay. Intelligence and cognition in general is still such an unknown, acting as if any scientific research done up to this point definitively points to innate genetic differences as primary causes behind gaps in IQ measures is dishonest.

If technology and our overall understanding of the brain continues to progress, maybe the answer will emerge. Right now, however, we have little clue.
quote:

Is that because people assume significant Asian-Caucasians differences must exist?

Significant differences, as it relates to IQ between these groups may exist, sure. Wheres the research that shows the etiology of these differences is rooted in DNA and is present from birth?






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NC_Tigah
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re: Public school teaches about "white privilege"


quote:

Significant differences, as it relates to IQ between these groups may exist, sure. Wheres the research that shows the etiology of these differences is rooted in DNA and is present from birth?
quote:

"Race differences show up by 3 years of age, even after matching on maternal education and other variables," said Rushton. "Therefore they cannot be due to poor education since this has not yet begun to exert an effect. That's why Jensen and I looked at the genetic hypothesis in detail. We examined 10 categories of evidence."

The Worldwide Pattern of IQ Scores. East Asians average higher on IQ tests than Whites, both in the U. S. and in Asia, even though IQ tests were developed for use in the Euro-American culture. Around the world, the average IQ for East Asians centers around 106; for Whites, about 100; and for Blacks about 85 in the U.S. and 70 in sub-Saharan Africa.

Race Differences are Most Pronounced on Tests that Best Measure the General Intelligence Factor (g). Black-White differences, for example, are larger on the Backward Digit Span test than on the less g loaded Forward Digit Span test.

The Gene-Environment Architecture of IQ is the Same in all Races, and Race Differences are Most Pronounced on More Heritable Abilities. Studies of Black, White, and East Asian twins, for example, show the heritability of IQ is 50% or higher in all races.

Brain Size Differences. Studies using magnetic resonance imaging (MRI) find a correlation of brain size with IQ of about 0.40. Larger brains contain more neurons and synapses and process information faster. Race differences in brain size are present at birth. By adulthood, East Asians average 1 cubic inch more cranial capacity than Whites who average 5 cubic inches more than Blacks.

Trans-Racial Adoption Studies. Race differences in IQ remain following adoption by White middle class parents. East Asians grow to average higher IQs than Whites while Blacks score lower. The Minnesota Trans-Racial Adoption Study followed children to age 17 and found race differences were even greater than at age 7: White children, 106; Mixed-Race children, 99; and Black children, 89.

Racial Admixture Studies. Black children with lighter skin, for example, average higher IQ scores. In South Africa, the IQ of the mixed-race "Colored" population averages 85, intermediate to the African 70 and White 100.

IQ Scores of Blacks and Whites Regress toward the Averages of Their Race. Parents pass on only some exceptional genes to offspring so parents with very high IQs tend to have more average children. Black and White children with parents of IQ 115 move to different averages--Blacks toward 85 and Whites to 100.

Race Differences in Other "Life-History" Traits. East Asians and Blacks consistently fall at two ends of a continuum with Whites intermediate on 60 measures of maturation, personality, reproduction, and social organization. For example, Black children sit, crawl, walk, and put on their clothes earlier than Whites or East Asians.

Race Differences and the Out-of-Africa theory of Human Origins. East Asian-White-Black differences fit the theory that modern humans arose in Africa about 100,000 years ago and expanded northward. During prolonged winters there was evolutionary selection for higher IQ created by problems of raising children, gathering and storing food, gaining shelter, and making clothes.

Do Culture-Only Theories Explain the Data? Culture-only theories do not explain the highly consistent pattern of race differences in IQ, especially the East Asian data. No interventions such as ending segregation, introducing school busing, or "Head Start" programs have reduced the gaps as culture-only theory would predict.






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onmymedicalgrind
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re: Public school teaches about "white privilege"


CT, just from the little I read, this may somewhat explain some of your questions:
quote:

There are two sets of eligibility criteria for receiving SSI: (1) financial criteria, based on the income and resources of the child and family; and (2) medical criteria about the child's impairment or combination of impairments.

So mental examination is not the only factor, but must also be weighted with the criteria that focuses on income and resources. And since there's no denying that on average, blacks in this country earn less, this could account for the disproportionate number of blacks receiving this SSI.

I would have to read up more on the specific tests done by physicians/psychologists in order to comment on that. I have to run and I will get to that later if I find time.

LINK






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CarrolltonTiger
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re: Public school teaches about "white privilege"


quote:

And since there's no denying that on average, blacks in this country earn less, this could account for the disproportionate number of blacks receiving this SSI.


More poor whites than poor blacks in America, I read that here oftem.







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onmymedicalgrind
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re: Public school teaches about "white privilege"


quote:

More poor whites than poor blacks in America, I read that here oftem.


quote:

no denying that on average, blacks in this country earn less,






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braindeadboxer
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re: Public school teaches about "white privilege"


Holy cow, I just read this entire thread and now my head hurts. I'm pretty sure that somewhere along the way I had some good thoughts to add, but my brain is too tired to post them.

ETA: Interesting read though I'll post in a bit.




This post was edited on 1/19 at 2:01 pm


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RogerTheShrubber
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re: Public school teaches about "white privilege"


quote:


no denying that on average, blacks in this country earn less,


When you have such an incredibly high HS drop out rate, there is no doubt you will have a lower earning potential.






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braindeadboxer
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re: Public school teaches about "white privilege"


I'll say that "white privilege" exists. But white people built that privilege and there is nothing stopping black people from doing the same. White people are more likely to have a married household, have more discipline, set high goals, work hard enough in life to help your kids climb a litte farther up the socio-economic rung, not have illigitame children...etc. The answer to leveling the playing field isn't bringing the white people down. It is in black people accepting the fact that no one is going to give them a way out, they have to do it themselves.

My great-great-grandfather on my moms side came to LA from Virgina with nothing to his name. He had a small farm here. Our family today consists of the top 3 largest farmers in the two parishes in the area. And no one gave our family a bit of help. One generation after another worked their arse off to get it where it is today.

My grandparents on my dads side both were born to sharecropper parents. They were treated about as poorly as a human can be without actually being a slave. My grandfather went to work as a laborer building pipelines across LA for pennies an hour before learning to be a crane operator. My dad and uncle became crane operators as well. My cousins and eye were able to go to school with minimal debt thanks to their hard work, even though it took a few sacrifices along the way. All three of us have engineering degrees. I hope to work hard enough to send my children to an even better school to become whatever they dream to be.



This post was edited on 1/19 at 2:44 pm


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Zach
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re: Public school teaches about "white privilege"


quote:

I'm sure IQ study, after IQ study, after IQ study of high-income households vs those in low-income households will show a similar IQ gap. Does that point to an innate, genetic cause?

Yes. The correlation between IQ and income is easy to see and explain. The higher the IQ the greater range of career options. Like I said 10 pages ago. You cannot become a doctor if you are born with an IQ of 85.
And that doesn't even go into the correlation between IQ and making good life decisions which correlates with wealth creation.






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onmymedicalgrind
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re: Public school teaches about "white privilege"


quote:

But white people built that privilege

Ehh on the backs of whom?

People in this thread have insinuated that academia is afraid to "take it there" when it comes to concluding blacks are born genetically inferior than whites because of political correctness or other similar factors.

Well, I could argue in a similar vein, that people on this board are hesitant or afraid to bring up the legacy of slavery and the long-lasting effects enslaving a race of people can have on them going forward.

The statement I quoted above is an example of this. Trying to make it seem as if back in the day, whites were waking up at dawn, working tirelessly until midnight "building" this privilege while blacks were just in their homes partying everyday, thus falling behind, is a bit disingenuous--and you know that. I could have sworn the South's agricultural economy was built on slave labor, am I wrong?
quote:

there is nothing stopping black people from doing the same.

I agree with you here.
quote:

White people are more likely to have a married household, have more discipline, set high goals, work hard enough in life to help your kids climb a litte farther up the socio-economic rung, not have illigitame children...etc. The answer to leveling the playing field isn't bringing the white people down. It is in black people accepting the fact that no one is going to give them a way out, they have to do it themselves.

Again, I believe your statements are supporting my argument here. If you want to advance a viewpoint that the multitude of things you listed (married household, discipline, etc) is what is causing this gap, than I agree. As a black man, its a sad truth that too many black youth in this country idolize the wrong people and believe the only way to achieve upward social mobility is to become an athlete or an entertainer. These are things that need to change, and it all starts with parenting, a stable household, and placing a high value on education.

But to say the reason behind the achievement gap is purely innate genetic is just an easy, cop-out--plain and simple. Blacks are born with every bit the cognitive capacity that other races are born with--how that develops and manifest itself after birth is within that individual's and his parent's/family's control.
quote:

My great-great-grandfather on my moms side came to LA from Virgina with nothing to his name. He had a small farm here. Our family today consists of the top 3 largest farmers in the two parishes in the area. And no one gave our family a bit of help. One generation after another worked their arse off to get it where it is today.

My grandparents on my dads side both were born to sharecropper parents. They were treated about as poorly as a human can be without actually being a slave. My grandfather went to work as a laborer building pipelines across LA for pennies an hour before learning to be a crane operator. My dad and uncle became crane operators as well. My cousins and eye were able to go to school with minimal debt thanks to their hard work, even though it took a few sacrifices along the way. All three of us have engineering degrees. I hope to work hard enough to send my children to an even better school to become whatever they dream to be.


It is obvious you come from a hard-working family and discipline and focus has been properly instilled in you

But that has nothing to do with your family's race, but everything to do with their determination and work ethic. My point is, being born a certain race does not put a "cap" on ones intellectual potential before he even takes his first breath.






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onmymedicalgrind
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re: Public school teaches about "white privilege"


quote:

When you have such an incredibly high HS drop out rate, there is no doubt you will have a lower earning potential.

Obviously.






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onmymedicalgrind
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re: Public school teaches about "white privilege"


quote:

I'm sure IQ study, after IQ study, after IQ study of high-income households vs those in low-income households will show a similar IQ gap. Does that point to an innate, genetic cause?

quote:

Yes.







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228Tiger
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re: Public school teaches about "white privilege"


quote:

Well, I could argue in a similar vein, that people on this board are hesitant or afraid to bring up the legacy of slavery and the long-lasting effects enslaving a race of people can have on them going forward.


I agree that it was an issue

However, how long can one blame slavery for the crime rates, low IQ scores and family problems of black americans? Let's not compare them to white americans or hispanic/asian americans for a minute. When will the time come when every person is on an even playing field and has the opportunity to do whatever they want to do in life, regardless of race?

I would argue that right now, most any american of any ethnicity can build themselves a strong career, life, and family values that they will be able to pass on to the next generation. Sometimes minorities even have more of an advantage






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braindeadboxer
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re: Public school teaches about "white privilege"


quote:

Ehh on the backs of whom?


Imo, this victim mentality is holding black people back. What's in the past is in the past. Complaining wont make the wrong right or change the fact that blacks were once slaves. Black people were not the first race to be enslaved.

As far as current calls for "financial compensation" for slavery. This won't do anything but hurt the black community. For one, our country can't afford it. This would hurt the country and in turn hurt the black community as they live here. Plus as sad as it may be, this money would primarily go towards rims, speakers and liquor.

As an added note, I was not supporting not refuting the argument about genetic predetermination of intellect. I know nothing in that matter and won't pretend to. I was merely stating that IF it is the case, there is little we can do about it.






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NC_Tigah
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re: Public school teaches about "white privilege"


quote:

Yes. The correlation between IQ and income is easy to see and explain. The higher the IQ the greater range of career options. Like I said 10 pages ago. You cannot become a doctor if you are born with an IQ of 85.
I believe his concern with IQ was in the findings of differences between racial groups, and potential racial stigmatization. I share that concern. But science is what it is. The findings of IQ-race are reproducible and demonstrate a clear genetic correlation.

Aside from the danger of drawing individual conclusions based on generalities, onmymedicalgrind's response is another example as to why I'm not an IQ fan. "Average IQ" runs 90-109. 50% of the population falls in that range. So what? Blacks as a general population apparently test at the lower end of that average range. Asians test at the upper end. What does that really tell us? Given the Asian performance, along with overall population numbers, you'd think Asians would rule the world. They don't. So the question is why?

Perhaps the better question relates to the value of IQ at all. Outside of broad generalities, is IQ a valuable measure of anything? Having witnessed adult Mensa members, who held quite unimpressive jobs, "practicing" for IQ tests and positing as to who was smartest in the NewOrleans region based on a 2-3 point IQ difference, I'm not a fan.

But as the studies quoted in this thread do make a convincing argument of genetic differences, denying that is silly. FWIW.





This post was edited on 1/19 at 5:48 pm


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NC_Tigah
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re: Public school teaches about "white privilege"


quote:

Imo, this victim mentality is holding black people back.






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onmymedicalgrind
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re: Public school teaches about "white privilege"


quote:

However, how long can one blame slavery for the crime rates, low IQ scores and family problems of black americans? Let's not compare them to white americans or hispanic/asian americans for a minute. When will the time come when every person is on an even playing field and has the opportunity to do whatever they want to do in life, regardless of race?


Read what I wrote and what I continue to argue. I never used slavery as an excuse for current day conditions. I just wrote a rebuttal to the poster who insinuated that white people were "entitled" to this "privilege" because they themselves worked hard and built it (presumably sometime in our nation's past). Only reason I brought up slavery was to shed light that the poster was being slightly misleading by making that statement. Thats it.

My parents taught me early on never to use slavery as an excuse or to play the race card, but, instead, work hard and grind my arse off and good things will come to me.

quote:

I would argue that right now, most any american of any ethnicity can build themselves a strong career, life, and family values that they will be able to pass on to the next generation.

I could not agree more.

I am confused as to why posts like the one I just quoted are directed towards me when that is essentially the crux of my position. It makes more sense that posts like the above should be directed towards those arguing that, from birth, certain races are born "cognitively crippled." But all I am arguing is essentially what you wrote: every race and every ethnicity has all the mental tools to be successful in America. If they are not, it is because of other factors.






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