The sobering truth about 'Gun Rights'...ultimately - Page 5 - TigerDroppings.com

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BeeFense5
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
Kenna
Member since Jul 2010
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re: The sobering truth about 'Gun Rights'...ultimately


quote:

EthanL makes a point. Too often people can't comprehend that people are capable of forming divergent opinions relatively independently and not be because of undue influence by "liberal media" or parents


You know that liberals blame conservative media (fox news) for those with conservative ideas and beliefs. It happens everyday on here. Liberals are by far not victims of this belief.






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VOR
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
New Orleans
Member since Apr 2009
41305 posts

re: The sobering truth about 'Gun Rights'...ultimately


Both sides can be condescending, no doubt.





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RogerTheShrubber
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re: The sobering truth about 'Gun Rights'...ultimately


quote:


You know that liberals blame conservative media (fox news) for those with conservative ideas and beliefs. It happens everyday on here. Liberals are by far not victims of this belief.


I'm starting to become more like TxTiger more in the regard that I think people are being led by a very small number of news outlets. Hell, even our TV shows show incredible bias on political subjects.

Probably 90% of what we think we believe is based on pure BS, and that goes for me as well.






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Ace Midnight
LSU Fan
Ball, LA - Home, Sweet Home
Member since Dec 2006
30386 posts

re: The sobering truth about 'Gun Rights'...ultimately


quote:

Just for future reference, I am keenly interested in what you, and most people have to offer.

But you lose me when you start saying all this. I didn't read anymore of your post.


When I read it again, it was kind of condescending and probably a little stronger than I wanted to say. I know it was a long post (your OP was fairly long, so I assumed that was okay here). I apologize for painting with quite so broad a brush. You came here to make a point, and get feedback.

The stark reality (and I covered in the post after my borderline comment that caused you to stop) is that a good portion of this liberal dogma is anti-black (for lack of a better term.)

Two of them that I mentioned were two of the most racist official policies ever pursued (and still are near and dear to many liberals) - abortion and gun control.

Planned Parenthood, in its infancy, explicitly went about with a mission to reduce the number of black babies born.

The modern US gun control movement has, at least as one of its germinal roots, the post-Civil War southern Democrat drive to disarm freedmen.

Why the community continues to give lip service to these racist policies is beyond me, particularly when, for example, gun control has failed blacks as a measure of crime control, as they predominate areas that are legally disarmed (or very restricted) but have extremely high rates of violence of all type, including guns. Conversely, whites predominate areas that have fewer restrictions on legal gun ownership, have significantly greater rates of legal gun ownership and have significantly lower rates of all types of violent crime, including gun violence.

Some with a predjudical or racist eye might look at the data and conclude, "hey a signficant portion of the crimes involve black criminals preying on black victims in majority black areas."

Another way to look at it is, "These crimes are overwhelmingly being committed by illegally armed criminals, preying on citizens who have been disarmed by their own government."

I really hope you read this one.



This post was edited on 1/19 at 12:57 pm


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GoT1de
Alabama Fan
Alabama
Member since Aug 2009
785 posts

re: The sobering truth about 'Gun Rights'...ultimately


quote:

'the most noble thing we can do is argue the rights of people we don't agree with', ergo the Westboro church that pickets/protests at a fallen soldiers funeral; or the Casey Anthony's, the O.J. Simpsons, and the many others who flexed their 'rights' to get away with crimes perpetrated.


Ethan, Do you think that a defendant doesn't deserve a defense lawyer? I guess I don't understand what point you are trying to make.
As for the Westboro/1st amendment thing... I am not sure where you are going with it either... Do you think the whole Bill of Rights needs to be trashed, or just the parts that you don't like?






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CITWTT
LSU Fan
baton rouge
Member since Sep 2005
31765 posts

re: The sobering truth about 'Gun Rights'...ultimately


The "sobering truth", when you get elected God, you can take away the rights given to me by the old God, it wasn't you or the government in charge of those.


WTF does Casey Anthony have to do with this argument AT frickING ALL? Is there a right to kill your child I am unaware of?






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Jake88
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Member since Apr 2005
8666 posts
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re: The sobering truth about 'Gun Rights'...ultimately


quote:

Maybe that is why 'mass shootings' are happening more often.


In a country of 330,000,000 is it happening often?






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Jake88
George Mason Fan
Member since Apr 2005
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re: The sobering truth about 'Gun Rights'...ultimately


quote:

I'm starting to become more like TxTiger more in the regard that I think people are being led by a very small number of news outlets. Hell, even our TV shows show incredible bias on political subjects.


TxTiger is much farther out on the paranoid limb than this. Of course the news outlets are a small group who leech on or piggyback each other in order to convey their message/ worldview. We've known that for years. The AP is a perfect example. One story gets picked up and reproduced in 500 or more newspapers everyday. That's not a conspiracy that's a fact of geography and convenience.

TxTiger believes that Bush/Cheney and their cronies ordered the 9-11 attacks amongst a likely myriad of other conspiracies.






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Brick67
Georgia Fan
Barksdale AFB, LA
Member since Oct 2012
341 posts

re: The sobering truth about 'Gun Rights'...ultimately


quote:

Let me explain my position on guns: I don't have any, I guess I am taking chances with my life and my family's.


Ethan...you should have rethought this post dude right after you typed this. You start off by effectively saying you don't understand and go on to prove you do not know what you are talking about. Learn more about the subject then get back to us.

quote:

I hear people talk about the 'thrill' they get from shooting a gun. When you go to the shooting range, do you shoot at a target with the shape of a human being, or a deer?


Have you ever been to the range? The process and discipline of target shooting is exhilerating just like improving your golf game is exhilerating. Many people compete and it is a lot of fun.

quote:

It seems, inadvertently, some of us have already prepared for this moment. Maybe that is why 'mass shootings' are happening more often.


Again, you know not what you are speaking of. Name the last mass shooting committed by a person who was preparing for some pending revolution.

quote:

Is it safe to say that there are 'gun-lovers' out there, who are waiting for something to happen as they buy guns.


No it is not...someting "could" happen but God forbid not any time soon and no one is saying it is absolutely going to happen. Mass shootings are not happening because of any of this. The last few have been committed by full on nut jobs.

Bottom line, exercise your right to bear arms or not--your choice. However, do not demonize those who choose to. It is a right guaranteed by the 2d Amendment. If you feel strongly enough about it then amend the consitution. My opinion is...nothing put in place this week will stop the next mass killing. What if the next one is with a 12ga shotgun used for birdhunting or a .357 revolver with speed loading? It will be the next emotionally opportunistic crack in the door to be exploited to advance the gun control agenda even further.






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Jbird
Iowa Fan
In Odramaville with EthanL
Member since Oct 2012
16643 posts

re: The sobering truth about 'Gun Rights'...ultimately


Brick all you need to know about Ethan is below.





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MFn GIMP
LSU Fan
Owensboro, Kentucky
Member since Feb 2011
8570 posts

re: The sobering truth about 'Gun Rights'...ultimately


quote:

This was very young country when the Constitution was written and the Bill of Rights attached. Much of it was wilderness, we were still under threat of direct foreign influence and the army was small. In my opinion, and based upon the sources I've read, the framers were referring to the ability of communities and/or states to maintain militias to defend themselves or assist the army in doing so. That's where the "well regulated" part of the Amendment comes in. However, the Amendment is now interpreted by some people as having the sole purpose of allowing individuals to arm themselves with whatever the frick they want so that the can defend themselves against the Feds, liberals and Negroes


Hmm, interesting. Is that why the English Bill of Rights codified the right of Englishmen to bear arms for self defense? A right that was a direct ancestor of the 2nd amendment?

Or perhaps that virtually every single early American legal commentator said that the 2nd amendment refers to an individual right and not a collective, militia, right?

What about U.S. v Cruishank in which the right to bear arms was considered pre-existent and not dependent on the Constitution for protection.






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EthanL
LSU Fan
Auburn,AL
Member since Oct 2011
3223 posts

re: The sobering truth about 'Gun Rights'...ultimately


I was never trying to offend or 'demonize' gun owners. I accept and acknowledge that very responsible, good citizens own guns and respect life.

In an effort to bring these people to the table, I was trying to draw distinctions between them and the 'incorrigible' crowd.

I'm sure a lot of you don't like violence perpetrated by blacks. But you don't tolerate racists do you?

Most of us here are against abortion. But really, do you believe that birth control is forbidden, like the Catholic Church says?

We are a religiously tolerant nation. But really. Does it really sit well with you that Muslims can build a mosque at ground zero?
Why can't they, or we have the common sense to see that is 'not cool'?

Why can't we, you, distance ourselves from the gun-lovers, the 'red-necks' (ill get in trouble for that one), the violence/war-mongers, who just love guns, and are stealing this particular platform to promote/sell guns? The response shouldn't be an increase in gun sales. That is what the ignorant, biased, do.

What is the response, the calm, collected response of the 'informed' crowd?







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Jbird
Iowa Fan
In Odramaville with EthanL
Member since Oct 2012
16643 posts

re: The sobering truth about 'Gun Rights'...ultimately


quote:

Why can't we, you, distance ourselves from the gun-lovers, the 'red-necks' (ill get in trouble for that one), the violence/war-mongers, who just love guns, and are stealing this particular platform to promote/sell guns? The response shouldn't be an increase in gun sales. That is what the ignorant, biased, do


Read your'e oh so reasoned and well thought out comment below.

Then go frick yourself.



This post was edited on 1/19 at 8:01 pm


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EthanL
LSU Fan
Auburn,AL
Member since Oct 2011
3223 posts

re: The sobering truth about 'Gun Rights'...ultimately


Jbird, I rarely RA people, but you seem to be asking for it. I am not interested in a fight, ad hominems, etc.

Respond to that and make it easy for me.






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Jbird
Iowa Fan
In Odramaville with EthanL
Member since Oct 2012
16643 posts

re: The sobering truth about 'Gun Rights'...ultimately


Why?





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texashorn
Member since May 2008
1570 posts
 Online 

re: The sobering truth about 'Gun Rights'...ultimately


quote:

Most of us here are against abortion. But really, do you believe that birth control is forbidden, like the Catholic Church says?

We are a religiously tolerant nation. But really. Does it really sit well with you that Muslims can build a mosque at ground zero?
Why can't they, or we have the common sense to see that is 'not cool'?

Now you want to "balance and review" religious freedom, I take it.

You're a real freedom lover, aren't you?






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texashorn
Member since May 2008
1570 posts
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re: The sobering truth about 'Gun Rights'...ultimately


quote:

we were still under threat of direct foreign influence and the army was small. In my opinion, and based upon the sources I've read, the framers were referring to the ability of communities and/or states to maintain militias to defend themselves or assist the army in doing so.


Do you see the word "army," "militia," or anything remotely resembling valuing government security over the security of the PEOPLE against their government in the following?

DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE, 1776

quote:

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.






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USMCTiger03
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Member since Sep 2007
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re: The sobering truth about 'Gun Rights'...ultimately


frick you, anti-gun shite eater.





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VOR
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
New Orleans
Member since Apr 2009
41305 posts

re: The sobering truth about 'Gun Rights'...ultimately


quote:

Do you see the word "army," "militia," or anything remotely resembling valuing government security over the security of the PEOPLE against their government in the following?



What is your point? Oh wait . . . I don't see the word "militia" in the Declaration of Independence. Gee, you win.






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RCDfan1950
LSU Fan
United States
Member since Feb 2007
10929 posts

re: The sobering truth about 'Gun Rights'...ultimately


quote:

In short, for those of you tl;dr, when does the 2nd not apply?


You do well to live according to your conscience when it comes to guns for protection, EL. A form of pacifism, really.

But the 2nd is not there for protection from INDIVIDUAL bad guys...but from GOVERNMENT/MOB RULE bad guys. The latter is a whole lot more dangerous! So the answer to your question is that when there is NO THREAT from GOVERNMENT INFRINGEMENT on the Constitutional-defined God-Given, Natural Individuals rights...then I'll be happy to by a new rod and reel instead of a gun.

Good luck.







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