Here's some economics 101 for you Dems to chew on | Page 2 | TigerDroppings.com

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joshnorris14
Florida Fan
Florida
Member since Jan 2009
21403 posts

re: Here's some economics 101 for you Dems to chew on


So your economics 101 lesson consisted of idiotic Keynesian nonsense?







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germandawg
Member since Sep 2012
3306 posts

re: Here's some economics 101 for you Dems to chew on


quote:

So I got my first check of the year on Friday and it looks like with the tax changes and the increase in health insurance I'll be playing with about $500 less a month between my check and my wifes so here's what will happen:

I'll call the cable company and go down to a lesser package, cut my cell phone data plan, tell the pest control guy I'll handle it from here, do some of the projects around the house myself instead of hiring someone to do it, not go out to eat as much, pass on the hunting and fishing equipment I'd like to buy, bring my lunch to work more often, wait a little longer to get a newer vehicle, etc. Yeah, just my pulling out of contributing to the local economy won't hurt, but if 40 million others in the country are doing the same, what do you think will happen?

The cable company will lay people off, the pest c ontrol guy will go out of business, the waitress at the restaurant will be let go and drop out of school, the carpenter will be out of business and the person I would have bought the vehicle from may lose their place to live cause they couldn't pay the rent or the mortgage. Then they will all go on public assistance to make ends meet.

Keep on taxin!


I can feel for you, but where does the $500 a month that you have seen disappear from your checks go? It would seem that you are suggesting that it somehow disappears out of the economy completely. Does it just vanish? I would assume that the worst case scenario is that some welfare recipient gets your $500 a month, right? That is the worse thing, correct? SO if this is the case that welfare recipient will take your $500 and get him some HOB and Showtime. He'll get him a smart phone and an unlimited data plan. He won't need pest control 'cause the section 8 house he lives in has it already and there ain't any need for any home improvement projects because the poor bastard doesn't own the home. He will go out to eat more frequently though, and while he may not buy hunting and fishing stuff he will probably buy a bunch of video games and other toys, and he will buy a new vehicle or at least some fancy wheels and tires for his existing one. So you see the only economy that is affected is your personal economy and that of the welfare recipient. The nations is not going to notice whose name the cell phone package is in or who has HBO this month, only individuals. But go ahead and pretend that taxation removes money from the economy. I am sure you have been told this so often that you will never accept the truth anyway.






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Aristo
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Jan 2007
2843 posts

re: Here's some economics 101 for you Dems to chew on


I've cut back spending as well.





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Tiger n Miami AU83
Auburn Fan
Miami
Member since Oct 2007
35778 posts

re: Here's some economics 101 for you Dems to chew on


First of all, the 2% payroll tax reduction was only temporary.

Second, if health care costs were not out of control, premiums would not increase. WTF do you think happens when costs rise? Here is a clue, you have to pay more.






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Poodlebrain
LSU Fan
Way Right of Rex
Member since Jan 2004
15616 posts

re: Here's some economics 101 for you Dems to chew on


quote:

can feel for you, but where does the $500 a month that you have seen disappear from your checks go?
Some of it goes to repay holders of U.S. debt that has matured. If the noteholders were U.S. citizens then the $500 would remain in the economy, but if it paid to non-citizens then it is removed from the economy. Your notion that the $500 would simply be redistributed to others in the economy would be true if the amounts of money being redistributed increased because of expanded benefits or expanded number of recipients. However, I doubt the costs of entitlement programs are increasing $250 per month per taxpayer.

The net result is that some of his $500 per month of additional tax revenue is not being recycled through the U.S. economy in the form of consumer spending. Some will be transformed into investment capital, and some will be withdrawn from the U.S. economy.







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ForeLSU
LSU Fan
The Corner of Sanity and Madness
Member since Sep 2003
34760 posts

re: Here's some economics 101 for you Dems to chew on


quote:

And they haven't, but SS taxes went from 4.2% to 7.9%


First, it's 6.2%. Second, it was a temporary tax holiday that ended.






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TrueTiger
LSU Fan
Chicken's most valuable
Member since Sep 2004
11259 posts
 Online 

re: Here's some economics 101 for you Dems to chew on


quote:

First of all, the 2% payroll tax reduction was only temporary.


Nothing the government does is permanent. Nor is any government itself.






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cssamerican
New Orleans Saints Fan
Member since Mar 2011
2314 posts
 Online 

re: Here's some economics 101 for you Dems to chew on


quote:

First, it's 6.2%. Second, it was a temporary tax holiday that ended.

Third it should have never went down in the first place. SS is headed for bankruptcy and they thought the best thing to do was underfund it even faster.






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Cholo
LSU Fan
National City, CA
Member since Oct 2012
1076 posts

re: Here's some economics 101 for you Dems to chew on


I know. I wish we had W back with all his fiscal responsibility.





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ForeLSU
LSU Fan
The Corner of Sanity and Madness
Member since Sep 2003
34760 posts

re: Here's some economics 101 for you Dems to chew on


quote:

Third it should have never went down in the first place. SS is headed for bankruptcy and they thought the best thing to do was underfund it even faster.


exactly...it's like your credit card company giving you a couple of months without having to make a payment. You're still accumulating interest, then you bitch when you have to start making payments again that they've jacked up your payment.






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Gray Tiger
LSU Fan
Prairieville, LA
Member since Jan 2004
23384 posts

re: Here's some economics 101 for you Dems to chew on


quote:

I know. I wish we had W back with all his fiscal responsibility.



Fo sho. I'm so glad that BO has shown some restraint and hasn't increased the US debt burden.






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Ton Chou
LSU Fan
On the Levee
Member since Feb 2010
365 posts

re: Here's some economics 101 for you Dems to chew on


germandawg, if you think there is a dollor for dollar relationship between the money you send to washington and the money you spend in the local economy you are an idiot. If that was the case, the things that our tax dollars are supposed to go to like roads, schools, etc. wouldn't be dilapidated. Sure some of it goes back into the economy in the form of sweetheart deals and pork barrel spending for excessively overpriced projects like WWII monument that Harry Reid's buddy benefits from. The proceeds then go to personal investments of said buddy who will pay less taxes than the pest control guy, restaurant waitress, etc.





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cahoots
LSU Fan
Red Stick
Member since Jan 2009
2007 posts

re: Here's some economics 101 for you Dems to chew on


quote:

Ton Chou



Here's some economics 101 for you. That 2% tax increase you're seeing pays for Social Security and Medicare. Republicans want to end those, right?






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Ton Chou
LSU Fan
On the Levee
Member since Feb 2010
365 posts

re: Here's some economics 101 for you Dems to chew on


Um, the tax bracket/percentages changed which means more taken out of your check than last year at certain income levels. I know the 2% thing was a holiday. My Fed withholding went up (along with the SS/Medicare line items) despite increased pre-tax insurance premiums. So, its not just the 2% thing. Either that or the payroll dept has some corrections to make.





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cahoots
LSU Fan
Red Stick
Member since Jan 2009
2007 posts

re: Here's some economics 101 for you Dems to chew on


Well, the federal tax brackets are exactly the same, so I fail to see how your taxes went up (besides the 2% that directly funds SS and Medicare).





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texashorn
Member since May 2008
1677 posts

re: Here's some economics 101 for you Dems to chew on


quote:

That 2% tax increase you're seeing pays for Social Security and Medicare.

The 2 percent tax increase was solely to the normal 6.2 percent Social Security tax.

Medicare is a separate payroll tax of 1.45 percent, and it was not touched by the payroll tax holiday (perhaps this was what led to the earlier confusion of someone saying SS was 7.5 percent or so -- both payroll taxes together are 7.65 percent).

The Social Security payroll tax does not necessarily go straight to SS; the surplus (which is dwindling) is invested in treasury securities that must, by 1983 law, be put into the general budget and used for general-spending purposes of all types, which can be anything under the sun.






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cahoots
LSU Fan
Red Stick
Member since Jan 2009
2007 posts

re: Here's some economics 101 for you Dems to chew on


quote:

The 2 percent tax increase was solely to the normal 6.2 percent Social Security tax.



I stand corrected






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germandawg
Member since Sep 2012
3306 posts

re: Here's some economics 101 for you Dems to chew on


quote:

quote:
can feel for you, but where does the $500 a month that you have seen disappear from your checks go?
Some of it goes to repay holders of U.S. debt that has matured. If the noteholders were U.S. citizens then the $500 would remain in the economy, but if it paid to non-citizens then it is removed from the economy. Your notion that the $500 would simply be redistributed to others in the economy would be true if the amounts of money being redistributed increased because of expanded benefits or expanded number of recipients. However, I doubt the costs of entitlement programs are increasing $250 per month per taxpayer.

The net result is that some of his $500 per month of additional tax revenue is not being recycled through the U.S. economy in the form of consumer spending. Some will be transformed into investment capital, and some will be withdrawn from the U.S. economy.


Sooooo....some of it is transformed into investment capital which means a business somewhere can invest in new technology that makes them more competitive and able to sale their products to a larger global market and hire Americans in the process. That seems like a bad notion...

And if the money is paid back to foreign investors what are they going to do with those dollars? They are either going to save them, which means they will wind up back in the US in the form of investment (thats what bankers do). If the foreign investor saw a pretty good rate of return on their original investment odds are pretty good that they will invest those dollars in more US Ventures and buying US Debt. Its all good! The fact remains that while tax increases affect each of us individually they do not happen in a vacuum. They do not take money out of the economy they merely move it around. It sucks I agree but this strict adherence to the idea that tax increases ruin the economy simply has no basis in reality. The main thing they do is make the individual uncomfortable and that is bad for consumer spending....but eventually we get over it and keep on keeping on. Of course our saving some money wouldn't be the end of the world either, but that is another story altogether.






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germandawg
Member since Sep 2012
3306 posts

re: Here's some economics 101 for you Dems to chew on


quote:

germandawg, if you think there is a dollor for dollar relationship between the money you send to washington and the money you spend in the local economy you are an idiot. If that was the case, the things that our tax dollars are supposed to go to like roads, schools, etc. wouldn't be dilapidated. Sure some of it goes back into the economy in the form of sweetheart deals and pork barrel spending for excessively overpriced projects like WWII monument that Harry Reid's buddy benefits from. The proceeds then go to personal investments of said buddy who will pay less taxes than the pest control guy, restaurant waitress, etc.


I don't disagree with the main gist of your post but your simply wrong about the tax money disappearing out of the economy. Even Pork Barrell projects, and god knows there are plenty of them and we all love our share of them, provide business opportunities for local businesses and in turn private sector jobs. Who do you think built the WW2 monument that you mentioned? Strong, independent, self sufficient job creating producers, thats who. Chances are even pretty good that the actual boots on the ground contractors weren't in the 47% of parasites that Romney was so put off by and more than likely supported Romney and the GOP. So how was it that those tax dollars impacted the economy in a negative fashion? I have an answer for this, but I have only met a handful of people in my life who knew how, and simply accept the dogma that it is true no matter what......






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tketaco
LSU Fan
NOLA: Lake View
Member since Jan 2010
8721 posts
 Online 

re: Here's some economics 101 for you Dems to chew on


Floorward!





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