Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS | Page 154 | TigerDroppings.com

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OMLandshark
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re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS


quote:

I don't know how you can get any darker than the Red Wedding. However, I'm sure G R R Martin will show me just how that's possible.



I think at the end of Book VI, King's Landing will fall to Aegon and Varys (who we'll know as an audience isn't an actual Targaryen and are both Blackfyres), Littlefinger will have taken over the North entirely and plans to kill Rickon and Bran to ensure Sansa's claim, the Wall will fall, and Dany is going to be marching into a trap created by Varys to capture her dragons for himself and Aegon, with Cersei on the run as well as all 3 of her children will be dead. It will be the perfect storm for the 7 kingdoms. Where Dorne fits into this, I'm not sure.

Anyone else think this may happen? Am I the only one that thinks that Varys may be a huge threat to Dany?



This post was edited on 1/9 at 12:31 am


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BlackleafBaller
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re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS


quote:

Where Dorne fits into this, I'm not sure.


I'm pretty sure that as long as they think Aegon is legit then they will back him. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if Doran has been moving the Sand Snakes around for this purpose to help Varys take Kings Landing and sneak in Aegon.








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kingbob
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re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS


quote:

Am I the only one that thinks that Varys may be a huge threat to Dany?


Dany is only a threat to Varys if she doesn't make common cause with Aegon. Varys has been paving the way for Aegon, but if Aegon is not legitimate, then things between Aegon/Varys could get ugly quickly. Their plan all along was to have Dany and Aegon team up and possibly marry in order to restart the Targ line.






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Zephyrius
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re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS


quote:

Littlefinger will have taken over the North entirely and plans to kill Rickon and Bran to ensure Sansa's claim, the Wall will fall,

Yes... the reveal of Bran and Rickon being a live will put a wrench in his plans but the Wall falling will also.

What if a reincarnated Jon Snow, Bran, and Rickon(who seemed to always being described with a wildling type disposition and now has a wildling caring for him) actually unite the wildlings... Then Littlefinger is fricked in the North.

I really don't think Littlefinger has much desire for North lands accept for the perceived influence Sansa could bring. Littlefinger has his designs on Kings Landing which is his ultimate goal and Sansa was hia vessel to get there since the Starks arrived in King's Landing...

In any case I think a huge clash between Varys and Littlefinger is in our future...






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OMLandshark
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re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS


quote:

Dany is only a threat to Varys if she doesn't make common cause with Aegon. Varys has been paving the way for Aegon, but if Aegon is not legitimate, then things between Aegon/Varys could get ugly quickly. Their plan all along was to have Dany and Aegon team up and possibly marry in order to restart the Targ line.



But still, I think Varys may have a personal vendetta against the Targaryen family to where he wants them extinguished entirely, but he still needed them for a little while. I think Varys' original plan was to have Aegon marry Dany in Slaver's Bay, and then have one of his Little Birds across the sea extinguish Dany so Aegon could have the dragons for himself.



This post was edited on 1/9 at 8:18 am


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DestrehanTiger
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re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS


quote:

has been paving the way for Aegon, but if Aegon is not legitimate, then things between Aegon/Varys could get ugly quickly.


If the theories are accurate, if Aegon isn't legitimate, he's likely a Blackfyre. Everyone assumes Varys is a Blackfyre, so I would think that fits in Varys's plans.






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DestrehanTiger
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re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS


quote:

What if a reincarnated Jon Snow, Bran, and Rickon(who seemed to always being described with a wildling type disposition and now has a wildling caring for him) actually unite the wildlings... Then Littlefinger is fricked in the North.


My only reservation with this is we saw how easily Stannis crushed the wildlings.






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OMLandshark
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re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS


quote:

My only reservation with this is we saw how easily Stannis crushed the wildlings.



I don't see for any reason for Stannis' army not to join them. I think the Boltons will be killed off in the next book due to the combination of Stannis' army and the fresh and ready to go army of the Vale controlled by Littlefinger.






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hiltacular
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re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS


quote:

I think at the end of Book VI, King's Landing will fall to Aegon and Varys (who we'll know as an audience isn't an actual Targaryen and are both Blackfyres), Littlefinger will have taken over the North entirely and plans to kill Rickon and Bran to ensure Sansa's claim, the Wall will fall, and Dany is going to be marching into a trap created by Varys to capture her dragons for himself and Aegon, with Cersei on the run as well as all 3 of her children will be dead. It will be the perfect storm for the 7 kingdoms. Where Dorne fits into this, I'm not sure.


This is all possible but not in 1 book. GRRM develops the plot at a snails pace.






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DestrehanTiger
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re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS


quote:

I don't see for any reason for Stannis' army not to join them. I think the Boltons will be killed off in the next book due to the combination of Stannis' army and the fresh and ready to go army of the Vale controlled by Littlefinger.


My point was that a united wildling army isn't that formidable against an organized Westerosi army. Even if UnJon reunites the wildlings, they won't be the same size as Mance's army.






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OMLandshark
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re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS


quote:

This is all possible but not in 1 book. GRRM develops the plot at a snails pace.



I'd say this all must happen at the end of the book, since this sets up the endgame. I don't see why this all couldn't happen. Aegon is already there and will likely gain the support of House Tyrell (if they can sneak Maergery out of the King's Landing) and House Martell. This leaves the Lannisters without any allies and ripe for destruction, especially with Tywin and Tyrion out of the picture.

House Bolton is pretty screwed right now, and the other Northern Houses (aside from maybe the Karstarks) would follow another real Stark on a whim, which leaves the North in either Sansa's (and thus Littlefinger's) or Rickon's hand. I'm leaning toward Sansa.

The Wall falling WILL happen by the end of the book. I'm almost 100% positive.

Dany I think arrives in Dorne (with Tyrion in tow) near the end of the novel, with Varys counting Dany coming to King's Landing to claim her rightful throne, where he will try to capture her dragons and try to kill Dany. Whispers of the Fall of the Wall come South, but most just think its the Wildings that will merely give Littlefinger, Stannis, and Jon Snow more trouble. Dany then decides to march North (at the advice of Tyrion) to defend the Seven Kingdoms.

That's how I think the 6th novel will go at least.






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Zephyrius
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re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS


quote:

My only reservation with this is we saw how easily Stannis crushed the wildlings.
True but there is no Wall to contend with either... They were attempting to seize/ overcome the wall and were not much focused on their flanks.

The reservation I had of this idea is how the zombies play in all this...






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19
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re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS


quote:

the other Northern Houses (aside from maybe the Karstarks) would follow another real Stark


If the sample Theon chapter from 'Winds is accurate, I think we can safely assume the Karstarks will fall in under the Starks from now on.

and No, I have no doubt that KofLT = L. This is where Bran will have information (if not fact) leading to the truth of Jon's parentage. IIRC, she left her armor and shield in the boughs of a Weirwood...(per Rhaegar's report to Mad King) more likely that is the place they first hooked up.


As for your plot summary on Winds...what about Victarian and the Horn? where will he play into the Dragon-napping plans?






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19
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re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS


quote:

The reservation I had of this idea is how the zombies play in all this..


The only thing I'm positive of is there will be a re-visit to the Fields of Fire by the end of the series...probably will happen within The Gift or it's borders, after The Others defeat/ slaughter the remaining Crows and raize The Wall...where the new dragon riders (or wargs) will fry thousands of acres and most of The Others with it.

Basically, the dragons are the key to defeating The Others. The battle will be costly to Westerosi defenders, of course, and smallfolk, but knowing Martin, I fear a major house will have it's line end there as well, a' la Gardner.

Tyrell? would be fitting in a poetic justice kinda way...






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OMLandshark
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re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS


quote:

As for your plot summary on Winds...what about Victarian and the Horn? where will he play into the Dragon-napping plans?



Thinking that on Dany's ride back to Westeros, he's going to be a huge pain in the arse for her. Honestly, I really have no clue where he fits in.

And 19, what do you think about my crackpot theory about Varys wanting to wipe out the Targaryens? He's just using Dany for her dragons and army, and once he has that under his thumb, he will try to eliminate her. Dany is strong willed and may not go along with Varys like Aegon was trained to.



This post was edited on 1/9 at 11:37 am


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19
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re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS


quote:

And 19, what do you think about my crackpot theory about Varys wanting to wipe out the Targaryens? He's just using Dany for her dragons and army, and once he has that under his thumb, he will try to eliminate her. Dany is strong willed and may not go along with Varys like Aegon was trained to.


- in hindsight, I'm pretty sure neither Varys nor Illyrio had a clue she would hatch the eggs, they married her off to a land-locked warlord to get her brother out of the way, knowing Viserys stupid arse would hang himself sooner than later waiting for Drogo to cross the Narrow Sea...she was not considered any threat to their plans at all, until she got pregnant (Robert's deal w Jorah for her head, Varys was quick to broker that one) I think the eggs were given to her merelyfor safe keeping (who would steal from a Dothraki Khal?) until Aegon was old enough/ time right to make a play for Iron Throne. Aeg having eggs could bolster his Targ ID / claim. I refuse to believe Varys and Illyrio thought the eggs could be hatched, just intended as window dressing for the Mummer's Dragon. Surprise!

Dany won't follow Varys at all, I suspect, especially once Tyrion bends her ear. Marriage may be Varys best/only option if Aegon is going to remain his main plan. He would be wise to ride her all the way to the Red Keep (rather than try to wrestle control of the dragons and unsullied en route). If he is a Blackfyre, his endgame more than likely is to eliminate the Targ line...only after she has served her purpose.

There is also the possibility that Aegon will be relegated to plan B, if Dany gets her shite together (or that he has been Varys's backup plan all along) Especially so, If we're wrong about Varys being a Blackfyre.






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OMLandshark
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re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS


quote:

- in hindsight, I'm pretty sure neither Varys nor Illyrio had a clue she would hatch the eggs, they married her off to a land-locked warlord to get her brother out of the way, knowing Viserys stupid arse would hang himself sooner than later waiting for Drogo to cross the Narrow Sea...she was not considered any threat to their plans at all, until she got pregnant (Robert's deal w Jorah for her head, Varys was quick to broker that one) I think the eggs were given to her merelyfor safe keeping (who would steal from a Dothraki Khal?) until Aegon was old enough/ time right to make a play for Iron Throne. Aeg having eggs could bolster his Targ ID / claim. I refuse to believe Varys and Illyrio thought the eggs could be hatched, just intended as window dressing for the Mummer's Dragon. Surprise!



Agreed, I'm just saying he added her to the plan when he heard of that.

quote:

Dany won't follow Varys at all, I suspect, especially once Tyrion bends her ear. Marriage may be Varys best/only option if Aegon is going to remain his main plan. He would be wise to ride her all the way to the Red Keep (rather than try to wrestle control of the dragons and unsullied en route). If he is a Blackfyre, his endgame more than likely is to eliminate the Targ line...only after she has served her purpose.



Yeah, he'll make sure she arrives in King's Landing, hand her the Iron Throne to sit side by side with Aegon, and then probably have one of his Little Birds slip the Tears of Lys into her ear while she slept. The dragons would then be in the dragon chambers, Varys likely knows how to tame the dragons, and then plans on using them to conquer the seven kingdoms. I seriously doubt Dany will go along with Varys at all (especially with Tyrion and Barristan at her side), and Varys knows this as well. He just hopes she'll be foolish enough to enter the Red Keep in order to eliminate her.

quote:

There is also the possibility that Aegon will be relegated to plan B, if Dany gets her shite together (or that he has been Varys's backup plan all along) Especially so, If we're wrong about Varys being a Blackfyre.


Seriously doubt Aegon will ever be plan B. At most Dany is his plan B. Varys has invested far too much into grooming Aerys and spent too many years of planning for him not to be plan A. Varys merely needs Dany's dragons and army. Once he has that in a marriage between Aegon and Dany, he's got everything he needs from Dany. This was basically proven after Dany's disappearance in Slaver's Bay. Granted this will make Dany far more apprehensive to another marriage, and thus less likely to go to the Red Keep with an offer from Aegon in marriage.



This post was edited on 1/10 at 1:02 am


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DestrehanTiger
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re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS


My one big hang up with Dany not originally being a part of Illyrio and Varys's plans is why not just kill Dany and Viserys. Nobody knew that Illyrio had them really. Who would shed a tear for the last 2 remaining Targs other than Dorne. Nobody would know who even did it.

So, if that is the case, has the plan been all along to marry her to fAegon?






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CottonWasKing
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re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS


quote:

My one big hang up with Dany not originally being a part of Illyrio and Varys's plans is why not just kill Dany and Viserys. Nobody knew that Illyrio had them really. Who would shed a tear for the last 2 remaining Targs other than Dorne. Nobody would know who even did it. 


I think varys would have been fine with killing dany i think illyrio was the hang up there i truly think he cares for dany






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OMLandshark
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Member since Apr 2009
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re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS


quote:

My one big hang up with Dany not originally being a part of Illyrio and Varys's plans is why not just kill Dany and Viserys. Nobody knew that Illyrio had them really. Who would shed a tear for the last 2 remaining Targs other than Dorne. Nobody would know who even did it.



Maybe to keep Robert distracted from finding the Targaryen he should be finding. If they were all dead at the beginning of the story, I think Robert would still be paranoid enough and desperately want war again enough to keep hunting for other Targaryen's if there were any.

quote:

So, if that is the case, has the plan been all along to marry her to fAegon?



Then why marry her off to Drogo? Drogo could have lived for quite some time.



This post was edited on 1/10 at 9:02 am


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