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Tiger Authority 
LSU Fan
Member since Jul 2007
29230 posts
| re: 20 hour work week to solve poverty (Posted on 1/6/13 at 6:16 pm to HempHead)
I'm going to avoid the pitfalls that spawned and exacerbated the 20 page FED thread started by our resident know-it-all business major moneyMissourifan of whatever the frick his handle is.
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HailHailtoMichigan! 
Michigan Fan
Mission Viejo, CA
Member since Mar 2012
5176 posts
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| re: 20 hour work week to solve poverty (Posted on 1/6/13 at 6:17 pm to mograyback)
quote:
he industry food/farm system makes everything more expensive.
What's the alternative? State owned farms?
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HempHead 
Alabama Fan
Appalachia
Member since Mar 2011
10139 posts
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I can not speak for him, but if he is like others that he reminds me of, he would probably advocate a system in which everyone ran a small organic operation like mine.
Which would be nearly impossible, unless we wanted a billion or two less folks in the world.
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mograyback 
Missouri Fan
Red Patoka Sea
Member since Jul 2011
5486 posts
| re: 20 hour work week to solve poverty (Posted on 1/6/13 at 6:24 pm to HempHead)
quote:
akes everything more expensive.
No, just no.
As someone who operates a small farm, and profits fairly well from it, I can tell you that the current agricultural paradigm, while it has flaws in many places, allows for cheaper and better distributed food than any other conceivable system.
Bull. And you're looking at it one dimensionally. Also, your profits are irrelevant to this point.. that just adds fluff to your statement. Your little farm operation is rather irrelevant to my point.
I know people don't like clicking links and reading for more than 30 seconds at a time, but this absolutely crushed what you've said.
LINK
This post was edited on 1/6 at 6:25 pm
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HempHead
Alabama Fan
Appalachia
Member since Mar 2011
10139 posts
| re: 20 hour work week to solve poverty (Posted on 1/6/13 at 6:26 pm to mograyback)
quote:
And you're looking at it one dimensionally.
What dimension am I looking at it from?
ETA: I am well aware, probably more so than you, of the flaws and terrible things that can arise from industrial farming. This does not change its ability to feed an enormous amount of people on smaller amounts of land.
This post was edited on 1/6 at 6:28 pm
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mograyback
Missouri Fan
Red Patoka Sea
Member since Jul 2011
5486 posts
| re: 20 hour work week to solve poverty (Posted on 1/6/13 at 6:26 pm to HempHead)
quote:
I can not speak for him, but if he is like others that he reminds me of, he would probably advocate a system in which everyone ran a small organic operation like mine.
Which would be nearly impossible, unless we wanted a billion or two less folks in the world.
Yeah, you shouldn't speak for me, because that is not what I think.
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mograyback
Missouri Fan
Red Patoka Sea
Member since Jul 2011
5486 posts
| re: 20 hour work week to solve poverty (Posted on 1/6/13 at 6:27 pm to HempHead)
quote:
What dimension am I looking at it from?
And as I suspected you didn't read the link.. not sure progressing the conversation is worth it.
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HempHead
Alabama Fan
Appalachia
Member since Mar 2011
10139 posts
| re: 20 hour work week to solve poverty (Posted on 1/6/13 at 6:29 pm to mograyback)
FOOD MILES? NEVER HEARD OF THOSE!
Have you considered that more fuel is expended by small operation farmers, like myself, in delivering their locally grown goods than by an industrial system that places produce in markets?
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HempHead
Alabama Fan
Appalachia
Member since Mar 2011
10139 posts
| re: 20 hour work week to solve poverty (Posted on 1/6/13 at 6:31 pm to mograyback)
quote:
And as I suspected you didn't read the link.. not sure progressing the conversation is worth it
I read the link. It's the same type of stuff I had to read several times a week in my Agroecology classes.
Would you mind telling me from what dimension I am viewing food production?
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mograyback
Missouri Fan
Red Patoka Sea
Member since Jul 2011
5486 posts
| re: 20 hour work week to solve poverty (Posted on 1/6/13 at 6:31 pm to HempHead)
quote:
FOOD MILES? NEVER HEARD OF THOSE!
Have you considered that more fuel is expended by small operation farmers, like myself, in delivering their locally grown goods than by an industrial system that places produce in markets?
Please.. and you read the headline, not the article. You're wasting my time.
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mograyback
Missouri Fan
Red Patoka Sea
Member since Jul 2011
5486 posts
| re: 20 hour work week to solve poverty (Posted on 1/6/13 at 6:35 pm to HempHead)
quote:
Would you mind telling me from what dimension I am viewing food production?
You're viewing it one dimensionally. Short term profit, that's it. Not long term common sense.
It makes no sense to cut down apple trees in Washington because at the moment it's cheaper to import them from China or New Zealand. It's not actually cheaper in the big picture.
It makes no sense that a country like UK imported 114 tons of milk in the same year they exported 117 tons.
It makes no sense that the pack of sugar on your table traveled thousands of miles when there is a sugar farm a few miles away.
It makes no sense that the average American meal travels 1500 miles. It's stupidity.
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HempHead
Alabama Fan
Appalachia
Member since Mar 2011
10139 posts
| re: 20 hour work week to solve poverty (Posted on 1/6/13 at 6:36 pm to mograyback)
LINK /
Here is a 'rebutting' article, but of course I'd rather pick your mind for its agricultural prowess rather than rely on competing authors.
What experience do you have in agriculture?
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HempHead
Alabama Fan
Appalachia
Member since Mar 2011
10139 posts
| re: 20 hour work week to solve poverty (Posted on 1/6/13 at 6:37 pm to mograyback)
quote:
You're viewing it one dimensionally. Short term profit, that's it. Not long term common sense.
Hmmmm. What gives you this insight? How do you know that I am viewing this from the perspective of short term profit?
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mograyback
Missouri Fan
Red Patoka Sea
Member since Jul 2011
5486 posts
| re: 20 hour work week to solve poverty (Posted on 1/6/13 at 6:49 pm to HempHead)
quote:
How do you know that I am viewing this from the perspective of short term profit?
Because you think it makes sense to cut down apple trees in Washington because it's cheaper to import them from China and New Zealand.
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RogerTheShrubber
LSU Fan
Juneau, AK
Member since Jan 2009
71960 posts
Online
| re: 20 hour work week to solve poverty (Posted on 1/6/13 at 6:58 pm to mograyback)
quote:
Because you think it makes sense to cut down apple trees in Washington because it's cheaper to import them from China and New Zealand.
Where did you get this?
Trade benefits both nations involved.
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mograyback
Missouri Fan
Red Patoka Sea
Member since Jul 2011
5486 posts
| re: 20 hour work week to solve poverty (Posted on 1/6/13 at 7:03 pm to RogerTheShrubber)
quote:
Where did you get this?
Trade benefits both nations involved.
Where did I get this? Are you asking if this is actually happening? Because it is.
Trade benefits both nations. Bull.
Washington is one of the finest places on earth to grow apples. It's nothing but a crime that many of these apple farms have been shut down because it's cheaper (in terms of dollars, not cheaper in the big picture) to import them from far away lands.
The example of the UK importing 114k of milk while exporting 117k is a prime example of the stupidity.
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HempHead
Alabama Fan
Appalachia
Member since Mar 2011
10139 posts
| re: 20 hour work week to solve poverty (Posted on 1/6/13 at 7:05 pm to mograyback)
quote:
Because you think it makes sense to cut down apple trees in Washington because it's cheaper to import them from China and New Zealand.
Perhaps it is, perhaps it is not. I am not privy to the business operations of the institutions that make these decisions. It may be that I would act differently, were I in a position to do so.
I do know, however, that they operate under market forces (unfortunately, federal involvement in agriculture greatly distorts true price structure). It may be that, under current price conditions for all facets of production and distribution, it is more efficient to engage in the current mode of import/export and nationwide shipping than otherwise. Were these conditions to change, production would adjust accordingly.
One must also recognize that our current cornucopia of food is the result of consumer demand. If consumers, like most of my customers, want locally-grown, seasonal produce, then that is what they will get. Currently, consumers demand nearly all foods at all times of the year. So long as there is the capacity to do so, this is what agricultural producers will meet.
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HempHead
Alabama Fan
Appalachia
Member since Mar 2011
10139 posts
| re: 20 hour work week to solve poverty (Posted on 1/6/13 at 7:07 pm to mograyback)
quote:
mograyback
Could you elaborate further on your meaning of the bigger picture, as it relates to cost of production?
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RogerTheShrubber
LSU Fan
Juneau, AK
Member since Jan 2009
71960 posts
Online
| re: 20 hour work week to solve poverty (Posted on 1/6/13 at 7:07 pm to mograyback)
quote:
Where did I get this? Are you asking if this is actually happening? Because it is.
You have a real problem with comprehension.
quote:
Trade benefits both nations. Bull.
And have never taken an economics class in your life.
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RogerTheShrubber
LSU Fan
Juneau, AK
Member since Jan 2009
71960 posts
Online
| re: 20 hour work week to solve poverty (Posted on 1/6/13 at 7:10 pm to HempHead)
quote:
like most of my customers, want locally-grown, seasonal produce, then that is what they will get.
Ding. And there is still a market for it. Most people access their produce through regular channels afforded them by economies of scale however.
There is still a place for local produce, hopefully the gubment will stop subsidizing "big ag" and the prices will make it more favorable for the local folks.
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