Doing LES with more..... - Page 3 - TigerDroppings.com

Posted byMessage
ForeLSU
LSU Fan
The Corner of Sanity and Madness
Member since Sep 2003
33632 posts

re: Doing LES with more.....


quote:

that would be a different relationship


oh, sorry...I thought you were trying to establish this point, my bad

quote:

Miles gets less from better players than other similar programs,






Back to top
bmy
LSU Fan
Member since Oct 2007
22228 posts
 Online 

re: Doing LES with more.....


quote:

it likely is based on our abysmal QB play as compared to our running game.



quote:


Or, are we recruiting fine players for that position, and the coaching/playclalling has been subpar to maximize their talents....which is an equally likely scenario.



I'd say that it's not a string of bad luck.. it almost is certainly coaching. All of our last three QBs have had the necessary physical tools..






Back to top
CptBengal
USA Fan
BR Baby
Member since Dec 2007
37621 posts

re: Doing LES with more.....


quote:

You shouldn't need a hunch and a graph to realize


I like statistics and numbers. You cant argue them, they just stare you in the face.

The numbers here present a quantifiable relationship that Less Miles does less than coaches at similar programs with similar levels of recruits.

The reason he doess less with more is up for debate, but anyone can see that it is even worse than expected. He actually does worse than the average of all teams in FBS...by a wide margin.

quote:

f your going to use overall recruit rankings wouldn't it make sense to see the relationship to overall success of the team during that time?



Again, that would be a different relationship, and you are free to do that analysis and present it. I have presented an analysis against OTHER TEAMS. Because other teams operate under the same recruiting controls/confines as LSU..namely getting both offensive and defensive players...to be able to facilitate their success on BOTH sides of the ball, this relationship has merit.






Back to top
MountainTiger
LSU Fan
Colorado Springs
Member since Dec 2008
3983 posts

re: Doing LES with more.....


quote:

it likely is based on our abysmal QB play as compared to our running game.

And if your QB is not good, what are you going to do? Run the ball more, which will tend to lower offensive production in general.

quote:

based on the failure to fix that position in the last HALF DECADE...I wouldnt hold your breath.

That remains to be seen but I'd rather have to replace a spark plug than the whole engine.

quote:

Or, are we recruiting fine players for that position, and the coaching/playclalling has been subpar to maximize their talents....which is an equally likely scenario.

If we've been recruiting good quarterbacks, I'd like to know who they are and why they haven't been starting.






Back to top
CptBengal
USA Fan
BR Baby
Member since Dec 2007
37621 posts

re: Doing LES with more.....


quote:

oh, sorry...I thought you were trying to establish this point, my bad

e point is that compared to other teams we compete against, and even the average of all FBS teams...Les Miles has much poorer offensive production based on the strength of his recruiting class.

You seem to want to argue the rationale of "why" that occurs. That's fine, and as said earlier, a number of scenarios are likely. However, most of the likely answers reflect poorly on Miles as a coach.






Back to top
JawjaTigah
LSU Fan
South of Tampa
Member since Sep 2003
10942 posts

re: Doing LES with more.....


quote:

how badly talent is misused by Miles and Co.
Examples. Lee, Jefferson, Shepherd. Assorted receivers and running backs over the years. It's shocking, if you think about it - LSU has had some very good recruiting classes, ranked high, and some of the higher ranked recruits have been some of the ones who have bombed (I think thru no total fault of their own). Coaching and recruiting are two very distinct functions. Need both to be top notch. At LSU under Les Miles' watch, that is questionable.






Back to top
Hugo Stiglitz
USA Fan
Bitch, I'm From Louisiana
Member since Oct 2010
56678 posts

re: Doing LES with more.....


quote:

the 95% CI shows that Alabama over the same time span has been able to do far better than LSU with the talent they are given, based on a model of all teams in FBS.

This is shocking






Back to top
CptBengal
USA Fan
BR Baby
Member since Dec 2007
37621 posts

re: Doing LES with more.....


quote:

If we've been recruiting good quarterbacks, I'd like to know who they are and why they haven't been starting.


you seem to assume that the player is the problem and that the coaching staff has no hand in their development, providing them a good scheme, or allowing them to thrive in a complimentary system.

Moreover, your assumption again reflects poorly on Miles because HE recruited these players.






Back to top
CptBengal
USA Fan
BR Baby
Member since Dec 2007
37621 posts

re: Doing LES with more.....


quote:

Need both to be top notch. At LSU under Les Miles' watch, that is questionable.


the data shows that teams we routinely compete against with similar recruiting classes have much higher offensive output than LSU.

I'd say the question isn;t a question anymore. The new question is...

Is Les Miles a bad evaluator of offensive recruits, or just a bad coach?

neither answer bodes well.







Back to top
Topwater Trout
LSU Fan
Red Stick
Member since Oct 2010
34353 posts

re: Doing LES with more.....


quote:

If we've been recruiting good quarterbacks, I'd like to know who they are and why they haven't been starting.


Why would a great QB want to come to LSU?






Back to top
EarthwormJim
LSU Fan
Member since Dec 2005
9745 posts
 Online 

re: Doing LES with more.....


quote:

some of the higher ranked recruits have been some of the ones who have bombed (I think thru no total fault of their own). Coaching and recruiting are two very distinct functions. Need both to be top notch. At LSU under Les Miles' watch, that is questionable.


And some of the players who've soared have been lower ranked players. Who's "fault" is that?

Show me the data that proves LSU has more highly rated busts compared to other teams.






Back to top
SPEEDY
Lamar Fan
2005 Tiger Smack Poster of the Year
Member since Dec 2003
59183 posts

re: Doing LES with more.....


quote:

Alabama over the same time span has been able to do far better than LSU









Back to top
JawjaTigah
LSU Fan
South of Tampa
Member since Sep 2003
10942 posts

re: Doing LES with more.....


quote:

Show me the data
Let's just name three names: Shepherd, Lee, Jefferson. I'm not comparing LSU to other teams. I'm comparing LSU with LSU talent and what happens once it gets here. How else do you explain how our offense has stunk up the season this year? Luck? Please...






Back to top
MountainTiger
LSU Fan
Colorado Springs
Member since Dec 2008
3983 posts

re: Doing LES with more.....


Well you seem to be assuming that I'm trying to defend Miles, which I'm not.

I don't *think* I'm making any assumptions. My point is that we recruited well overall but didn't recruit good quarterbacks. We didn't develop them and make them better either, which I think is your point but we didn't have much raw material to work with there. I think they were recruited as backups to RP and then got pressed into service unexpectedly. That's true for JL for sure. So that failure to recruit well at one position is skewing the numbers in general making it seem as though we recruited better than we in fact did.






Back to top
nf
LSU Fan
Portland, OR
Member since Oct 2012
452 posts

re: Doing LES with more.....


You need only look at how miserable we have been at getting offensive players drafted to see that we do a terrible job developing talent on the offensive side.





Back to top
EarthwormJim
LSU Fan
Member since Dec 2005
9745 posts
 Online 

re: Doing LES with more.....


quote:

Let's just name three names: Shepherd, Lee, Jefferson. I'm not comparing LSU to other teams. I'm comparing LSU with LSU talent and what happens once it gets here. How else do you explain how our offense has stunk up the season this year? Luck? Please...


So you're going to ignore the low rated players who have done extremely well under Miles?

No one's arguing that the offense has been great, my argument is that there are busts in every program and that's all part of the recruiting game.







Back to top
CptBengal
USA Fan
BR Baby
Member since Dec 2007
37621 posts

re: Doing LES with more.....


quote:

I think they were recruited as backups to RP and then got pressed into service unexpectedly.


Mett was pretty awful this year.

quote:

So that failure to recruit well at one position


still reflects poorly on Les Miles.






Back to top
CptBengal
USA Fan
BR Baby
Member since Dec 2007
37621 posts

re: Doing LES with more.....


quote:

So you're going to ignore the low rated players who have done extremely well under Miles?

which offensive player that was low rated has done extremely well under Miles.....

I'll wait.

because the I'm almost sure it is dwarfed by the number of 3+ star recruits who were "busts"






Back to top
Macavity92
LSU Fan
Member since Dec 2004
3537 posts

re: Doing LES with more.....


All of this assumes that recruiting ranks are an accurate predictor 1:1 predictor of success. Did you account for the potential error there?





Back to top
MountainTiger
LSU Fan
Colorado Springs
Member since Dec 2008
3983 posts

re: Doing LES with more.....


quote:

still reflects poorly on Les Miles.

OK, whatever. You win.



This post was edited on 1/3 at 7:23 pm


Back to top


Back to top




//