Doing LES with more..... | Page 2 | TigerDroppings.com

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heartbreakTiger
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grinding for my grinders
Member since Jan 2008
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re: Doing LES with more.....


because it makes the les fans feel better rather than admit that les has made a mistake on offense and he needs to fix it.

02 and 04 are almost identical to 09 and 10. when looking at ppg and the yards overall favor 02 and 04.






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CptBengal
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Member since Dec 2007
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re: Doing LES with more.....


quote:

LSU is not the most talented team in the country
What makes you fools believe that?


listen up buddy.

Based on the recruiting classes LSU gets and the model of all FBS teams.

Miles gets less from better players than other similar programs, and other programs who dont get as much.

the data speaks for itself. You can yell all you want and call me names, but the data doesnt lie.






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CptBengal
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re: Doing LES with more.....


quote:

Whose fault is it that your expectations are this high?


the expectations based on the quality of recruits that Les Miles brings in based on the data of all FBS teams would be that he would produce AT LEAST the average offensive ranking for his recruiting class stature.

He has failed in that regard.






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TigerBait2008
LSU Fan
Death Valley
Member since Jun 2008
17029 posts

re: Doing LES with more.....


quote:

Why do you want to compare a team building a program vs one that is already elite?



This might be the dumbest shite I have ever read on here.


And that's saying something.






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EarthwormJim
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Member since Dec 2005
9780 posts

re: Doing LES with more.....


Is the recruiting rank based on offensive players only?





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CptBengal
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re: Doing LES with more.....


quote:

Is the recruiting rank based on offensive players only?


No, and I should have specified that in the OP. I couldnt find offensive player class ranks easily available for this quick exercise.

however, as all teams must recruit both offense AND defense, making an argument that we dont recruit offensive players isnt dissuading the trend in the data.

I will do a defensive one when I have time.






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Tiger1242
LSU Fan
Member since Jul 2011
22845 posts

re: Doing LES with more.....


quote:

Is the recruiting rank based on offensive players only?

quote:

No


well frick that makes this kind of useless than, no? I mean we always have top recruiting classes based mostly on the defensive studs we recruit. I know we still get a lot of great Offensive recruits but we get way more defensively


eta: I'm not saying we aren't underachieving, but it's not by as much as this chart would suggest



This post was edited on 1/3 at 6:09 pm


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MountainTiger
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Member since Dec 2008
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re: Doing LES with more.....


CptBengal, I'm not going to say that your analysis is invalid. Far from it, I think that this is a nice way to look at it. However, it might be that the data themselves are a little biased. Hear me out...

Offensive production is very highly correlated with the production at one position: QB. Most teams go as their quarterbacks go. He has a good day the team has a good day for the most part. Also while LSU has had excellent recruiting during Miles' tenure it has had very bad recruiting at one position: QB. So your data may just be reflecting the fact that over the last 4 years, we haven't had solid production at that position. In other words, we don't make optimal use of the great recruits we get at other positions because of the one weakness at QB.

Thoughts?






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EarthwormJim
LSU Fan
Member since Dec 2005
9780 posts

re: Doing LES with more.....


quote:

however, as all teams must recruit both offense AND defense, making an argument that we dont recruit offensive players isnt dissuading the trend in the data.


Do all teams recruit offensive an defensive players at the same rate?

This graph is useless. Everyone know the offense has struggled. Everyone knows recruiting rankings are not an exact as well.








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CptBengal
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re: Doing LES with more.....


quote:

Thoughts?


thats a good potential rationale for the trend.

However, that still puts the failure directly on Miles and Co. for failing to produce a player of quality in that position.

I mean there are true freshman who put up yards, redshirts, etc.

To say 4 or 5 years isnt enough time to get one in the program and producing is just wrong.






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Louie T
LSU Fan
Chopper City
Member since Dec 2006
32640 posts

re: Doing LES with more.....


quote:

Well that doesnt mean shite.

Recruiting rankings wise puts us behind Bama, Usc, Ut, FSU, Uf and rt ahead of Aub and UGA.

With teams like ND, Ohio Ste, tamu, clemson and others that have had at least one higher rated class than lsu over the last 5 years.

Yet we have an sec title and a bcscg birth in that time frame. Please explain how he does less with more?
Can you not read? OP makes it fairly obvious what the data represents






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ForeLSU
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The Corner of Sanity and Madness
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re: Doing LES with more.....








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Topwater Trout
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Red Stick
Member since Oct 2010
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re: Doing LES with more.....



Are you so fricking stupid you can't comprehend the difference in a team that is being built vs one that is already established?

Lets just go with your line of thinking. Explain Gundy at Ok st. compared to when Miles coached there.






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CptBengal
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Member since Dec 2007
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re: Doing LES with more.....


quote:

o all teams recruit offensive an defensive players at the same rate?


coaches recruit where they have need. Based on our offensive offense the last few years you would think that would be a recruiting area of focus/concern, wouldnt you?

quote:

This graph is useless.


No, it presents a relationship. That relationship shows that other teams are able to get better offensive production out of lower recruiting classes.

What you are arguing is the rationale for the trend. That is an academic discussion, but the relationship exists.

quote:

Everyone know the offense has struggled.


Then why hasn't it been a point of focus/concern? If it has been, then that is an abject failure by the coaching staff to right the ship.

quote:

Everyone knows recruiting rankings are not an exact as well.



agreed. But it was an interesting relationship that I wanted to check out. My hunch was correct, and Miles does less with more based on those rankings.






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ForeLSU
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The Corner of Sanity and Madness
Member since Sep 2003
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re: Doing LES with more.....


quote:

the data speaks for itself


wouldn't it be a more meaningful story if you also looked at wins, wins vs. top teams, strength of schedule, defensive rankings, special teams rankings, etc. vs. recruiting rankings.






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MountainTiger
LSU Fan
Colorado Springs
Member since Dec 2008
4692 posts

re: Doing LES with more.....


quote:

However, that still puts the failure directly on Miles and Co. for failing to produce a player of quality in that position.

I don't dispute that at all. All I'm saying is that instead of interpreting it as LSU is not developing offensive players in general, perhaps a more accurate interpretation is that LSU is not developing the position of QB and that is skewing the numbers. It's more comforting to me that if we can somehow fix that position, everything else will improve too, rather than that the entire process is straight busted.






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CptBengal
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re: Doing LES with more.....


quote:

ouldn't it be a more meaningful story


that would be a different relationship. You are free to do that one if you choose and start that thread.






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bmy
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Nashville
Member since Oct 2007
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re: Doing LES with more.....


cool thread bengal





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EarthwormJim
LSU Fan
Member since Dec 2005
9780 posts

re: Doing LES with more.....


quote:

agreed. But it was an interesting relationship that I wanted to check out. My hunch was correct, and Miles does less with more based on those rankings.


You shouldn't need a hunch and a graph to realize that the offense has not lived up to the overall recruiting rankings. And I think everyone is in agreement that something needs to change to improve that side of the ball.

However if your going to use overall recruit rankings wouldn't it make sense to see the relationship to overall success of the team during that time?






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CptBengal
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Member since Dec 2007
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re: Doing LES with more.....


quote:

All I'm saying is that instead of interpreting it as LSU is not developing offensive players in general, perhaps a more accurate interpretation is that LSU is not developing the position of QB and that is skewing the numbers.


it likely is based on our abysmal QB play as compared to our running game.

quote:

It's more comforting to me that if we can somehow fix that position, everything else will improve too


based on the failure to fix that position in the last HALF DECADE...I wouldnt hold your breath.

Or, are we recruiting fine players for that position, and the coaching/playclalling has been subpar to maximize their talents....which is an equally likely scenario.






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